Talk:Bass (voice type)/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Bass (voice type). Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Schwarzer bass merged here

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Schwarzer bass. Johnleemk | Talk 06:41, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Not vandalism

I have not vandalised this, I have simply pointed out objectively other points of view. However, I will not edit this page again because I am accused of vandalism. good day.

Benjaminstewart05 18:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Why the removal of Collins?? KRay 22:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Mark Knopfler

I cannot believe someone was stupid enough to purt Mark Knofler on the popular bass list! Do you really know what a Bass is? Do you really know who Mark Knofler is? Tell, me in which song has Mark Knofler demonstrated he fits or can sing in the bass range? Mark Knofler barely even has a vocal range. He might be a baritone if anything, but he is certainly, in no way a Bass...NO WAY! Kiske

Please can you sign your comments? Otherwise they will have no credibility. - Kleinzach 09:44, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Mark Knopfler has a very low and short vocal range. I know he cannot pitch higher than D4 but can reach F2 easily. As for an example try listen to the 'Rudiger' song from the Golden Hart album. There are plenty of F2's by Mark Knopfler. Doxent 22:40, 06 Aug 2006 (CEST)

Not because he reaches the F2 does it mean he is a bass! To be a bass you have to at least confortable reach the E below the bass cleff...at least, and a majority of basses go a lot lower than that!...Mark Knofler is probably a baritone, but reality is that he has a very limited vocal range. Kiske 00:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Knopfler fits the harvard dictionary of music's definition for what a bass would be.--I'll bring the food 21:48, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Range

I think the upper range may be inaccurate on some of these vocal range pages; basso says that range generally rises to the E above middle C (although the image shows a D), bass-baritone to the F#, and baritone only to the F? Keppa 20:33, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Specifically, the top end of the bass register that I usually hear is middle C (C4) (http://www.library.yale.edu/cataloging/music/vocalrg.htm). I sing up to the E above middle C myself, and I've been called a baritone or a bass-baritone, never a bass. Keppa 03:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I think usually bass singers are able to reach the D right above the middle C. If my memory serves me correct, even the aria of Sarastro reaches D (or #C?). Leporello reaches E and stays on D for a long time in the catalogue aria. Bartolo reaches at leat D in La vendetta. My personal view is, human register varies smoothly among different people, so the classification of voice part is a matter not only of register but also of timbre, etc... Don Ottavio's aria Dalla sua pace has a highest note only G, which many Baritones can reach, but it is still a Tenor aria. Schpnhr 20:30 September 3 2006 (EDT)

I sing in an amateur choir, and I can give lots of examples of music that requires E above middle C for the basses. F and F# above middle C can also be seen, but that is not common. Apus 11:03, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Verdi's chorus writing frequently calls for high E's and F's from the basses. See the bass 1 parts in "Il Trovatore," for example. 69.178.122.114 09:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

First off let me say that bass is mostly about where the voice sits. You can be a bass singer and have a range where your lowest note is an F2. However, all of the basses i have met have at least a D2 as their lowest note. A profondo is usually lower than a cantante, but is almost soley determined by the texture and tessitura of the voice. Bass-baritones are a not always higher than a bass. I have met a few with lower ranges than some profondos. Bass-baritones are generally categorized for their high notes and their comfort in the higher baritone tessituras, as well as in the lower register. - La Vendetta goes up to an E above middle C and down to a G#. - Sarastro's aria (O isis und osiris) goes up to middle C and down to F2. In diesen heil'gen Hallen; his other aria also goes up to middle C but down to F#2. - The lowest note demanded of a bass in an aria is a D2, (Omins aria "O, wie will ich triumphiren" from Die Entfurhung aus dem serail) This aria goes up to an E above middle C as well, -which i believe is the highest demanded note of any bass aria as well (but i'm not totally sure on that) and therefore: A low bass range should be classified (once developed of course!) as D2-E4 While a higher one, such as a cantante, could be F2-E4. (I am a young operatic bass singer with a C2-D4 range at the moment; please correct me if any of this information is wrong and thanks)

Range varies between singers, there is no correct range. My attempt to add additional opinions is because many is better than one which we are all forced to agree on. Your lowest c is a note I would die for (well i'm exaggerating but you get the message). It is likely your passaggio engages at a slightly lower top note than mine. The Oktavists of Russia make your C2 look pathetic, and my E2 pitiable, but they make us no less basses than we already were. Range is given as a rough guide. A friend of mine goes no lower than Bb2 and is clearly a tenor, yet he can't go above G4 because nobody has taught him to cover his tone. He is still a tenor however, and there are range estimates for people like him out there, just as the article describes me and you more or less, give a few notes.--I'll bring the food (Talk - Contribs - My Watchlist) 01:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

There is much discussion about the special place Russia has with producing particularly profound profundo basses. I remember in general voice instruction of a special breed of bass known as the "Russo Bass." There was even discussion on special training one did to produce extra nodes on ones vocal folds to produce very low pitches, as low as E0 (actually can go lower, but "pitches" lower than this sound like a series of clicks, and not a tone), along with usage of glottal fry. I think someone should research this and add "Russo Bass" or "Russian Bass" as a special sub-class of bass. Weyandt 18:47, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Forming extra nodes on the chords will raise the pitch, not lower it. Vocal fry is a very different technique indeed. Incidentally, I reach a C2 to an F4. 71.79.110.56 22:26, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

True basso

Alright, listen up folks. Range doesn't really mean much when it comes to bassdom.

What to look for to determine bassdom is a noticably deep and resonant timbre, and a large lower register!

Just because someone hits a D2 does not mean they are a bass.

Choral arrangements shouldn't be used to typify the range of a true bass. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Clemford (talk • contribs) 00:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

While you are quite right that timbre is a hallmark of a true bass, it is in no way the only indication, range is a significant part of the equation. Barry White had all the Bass timbre in the world, yet rarely decended into the depths of the bass range. I would define him as more Bass-Baritone, than true bass. On the other hand there are those who consistantly sing around the bottom of the staff, yet have not the timbre of Barry. I agree that ones ability to sing a D2 is not a bass, but then is have a rich thick timbre a bass? Not. One must have a balance of both to be a true Bass. For myself, I can get a Bb below the staff, but with no timbre. The timbre kicks in at or about F2 depending on a variety of factors. There are those that would not call me a Bass. But I can assure you that anyone who has to sing most "Songs" an Octave lower than written is a Bass. ----- Neil

Of course there are a number of varying schools of thought. There seem to be three main attributes to a voice which typically contribute to the classification of that voice. One is range. Two is timbre. Three is tessitura. If you can only get down to a C4, then you are most certainly not a bass. If your timbre resembles that of a soprano, you are not a bass. If you can sing a G1, but are only comfortable singing in the C3-G4 range for any length of time, then you are not a bass. (It is far easier to present examples that are very clearly not bass voices, of course, to illustrate these three factors.) The various schools of thought differ in the degree to which they consider each of these three attributes (for instance, a very simplistic school might consider only range, ignoring timbre and tessitura altogether).

Furthermore, one also has to consider the various types of bass voices. As the article notes, basso profondo is not the same as basso cantante. A basso cantante might be able to get away with having a very tenor-like timbre, yet still be considered a bass. When classifying a voice as basso profondo, OTOH, there is really very little latitude in the timbre.

There are of course other attributes which may be considered as well, such as the location and quality of the passagio, and, in a choir, the ability of the voice to blend with other voices on the same part. These generally (except in some choirs, eg chamber choruses) are secondary considerations at best in any school of thought. 71.79.110.56 22:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

disputed middle/head voice ranges

i used to sing bass in a choir and have studied voice as a baritone. i don't think the comments about the range of chest/middle/head are very accurate, if such a distinction can even be said to exist at all; the only obvious bass ranges are chest voice and falsetto. even the article on head voice seems to disagree about where the "head voice" begins. most basses sing in what's essentially a single voice (chest voice) all the way up to e4 or so; i think the "authorities" who make claims about "head voice" are making confused analogies with women singers, where the situation is very different. i heard (once) a bass who sang all the way from f2 to f5, moving smoothly from chest voice to a sort of middle or head voice (around e4-c5) to what was clearly a falsetto above this; but this is *not* normal for bass singing. Benwing 04:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

nor is the assertion that a bass is weakest in their upper range very accurate. all good male singers have strong upper ranges (that's why pop singers often sing so high); it's just that basses (esp. true basses) can also project a strong lower range (below c3). Benwing 04:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm removing the tag. You are not a notable source.--I'll bring the food (Talk - Contribs - My Watchlist) 00:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, middle and head voice are types of modulations in the cords, for some reason there seems to be a misunderstanding in the fraternity over what head voice is. Head voice is not a more connected falsetto, and Brett Manning does little to help the cause by offering EQ'd falsetto as an example of what the head register is. The head register is simply a voice in which a technique called "covering" is used above a certain threshold, where depth is lost and a less boomy tone is produced. In tenors, the head range begins at G4 and goes to about E5 or occasionally as far as F5. The head register article does not disagree, it merely has a multitude of pedagogists who have their own ideas and methodologies. The person you speak of simply has a good head voice that he can project over a tenor range. Chris Cornell, a baritone, possesses something similar. --I'll bring the food (Talk - Contribs - My Watchlist) 00:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll also address other things from you:

One friend going to C5 isn't a notable source.
What you have studied as is not a reliable source, if you have books, they however, are.
Richard Miller has similar views to the author of Singing for Dummies, there is no reason to doubt her.
"most basses sing in what's essentially a single voice (chest voice) all the way up to e4 or so;" Is totally and utterly incorrect. At C#-Db4 the majority of basses engage their head voice. They begin covering the tone. Sometimes this is called mixed voice, sometimes this is called voce piena in testa, sometimes it's called belting. They are all the same thing. Don't let the deluded masses of SLS and Brett Manning make you think head voice is anything other than a full voiced belt lacking some depth. All the top voices in "pop" have a high range because they either use falsetto, belt, have a tenor range or scream, a lot. Females can get away with a falsetto on the high notes (whistle register) and people even treat that as part of their range in pop. The top notes of a bass are not chest voice.--I'll bring the food (Talk - Contribs - My Watchlist) 01:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, do you notice how one source says the bass goes up to a mere C4? That's because that source does not include head voice. It also says the tenor goes up to a mere G4. that is the tenor's top notes in chest, before the passaggio forces them to belt voce piena in testa over that limit. --I'll bring the food (Talk - Contribs - My Watchlist) 01:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

IP address deleting content

An ip address deleted some content. I've decided to start tracing them. 66.108.168.73 traced to: cpe-66-108-168-73.nyc.res.rr.com--I'll bring the food (Talk - Contribs - My Watchlist) 02:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

interesting video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiBTbi7We90