Talk:Basketball at the 1952 Summer Olympics

Israel in 1952 Olympics

Hi! I saw, that you have made some create edits on Basketball at the 1952 Summer Olympics for the Israeli squad! So I would like to ask you, if you have some more information about the players? I would like to start articles for all of them like I have done it e.g. for Bill Coulthard. I think, that at least the date of birth is necessary to start an article...

Do you also have some more info about the names? E.g. Reuben Perach or Reuben Fecher-Perach. What is his birth name? And under which name he competed at the 1952 Olympics? Maybe he was born Reuben Fecher and changed his name to Reuben Perach and competed also only under the name Reuben Perach?

Please let me know if you are interested in creating these articles, because I have some more questions. Kind regards and :) Doma-w (talk) 15:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Since this is ancient history there is little info available on many of these players... the most famous of these is Ralf Klein, who is much better known for his coaching carreer...

The issue of names is quite confusing... as most, if not all, players were not born in Israel (as were most Israelis at that time), their original names were in their native language. There was a government directive at that time that Israeli Olimpians should change their names to Hebrew names, therefor the official names were in Hebrew (except for several athletes who got away from this order, for example Shneior). Some athletes continued to use their Hebrew name after the Olympics, but others didn't and were known by their original names throughout their life. I decided that in case of double names, the common name comes first, whether it's Hebrew or not. So it's Rolf Klein-Ram but Shimon Shelah-Schmuckler. Since my earliest sources on Israeli sport are from the 1970s, it's hard to tell what were the names at the time of the Olympics. For example... Moshe Daniel is the common name for one basketball player, but in the Olympic record his name is Moshe Daniel Levy, and it's unclear which is first and last names...--Nitsansh (talk) 14:53, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks for your reply. Yes I know, the issue of names for the sportspeople from Israel is confusing. And I do not speak Hebrew... I would like to say, that the official names were the names shown in the official report for this Games? But my main problem is, that I do not believe that e.g. Shimon Shelah-Schmuckler has ever had this name. I think he was either called Shimon Shelah or Shimon Schmuckler. And it looks like, that Shimon Schmuckler (of German origin?) was his birth name and Shimon Shelah was his Hebrew name? But we do not know and so I think that it is up to now ok to write both names for these players. It's a pity, that we do not have more info... Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 16:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

As I said... there was a directive from prime-minister David Ben Guryon that Olympic athletes should have Hebrew names, and so many of the athletes chose new names. If you check the index of the Olympic report, you'll find many names with the official (Hebrew) name followed by the original name in brackets, such as Shelah (Schmuckler), Shimon... in some cases, athletes apparently liked their new names and continued to use them afterwards, and Shelah is one of these... so in the records of the Israeli NOC he is listed as Shimon Shelah and very few people nowadays know his original name...

On the other hand, there are athletes who continued to use their original names, and the Hebrew name they were given for the Olympics remain no more than an anecdote in their biography... for example, the person whose original name was Rolf Klein was given the name Raphael Ram, but everybody in Israel refer to him as Ralf Klein... (BTW, the meaning of Klein in German is small, but Ram in Hebrew is the opposite - high...)--Nitsansh (talk) 16:38, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

This all is very interesting! Do you think we can start at least some articles for these sportspeople? Maybe we can start with Ralf Klein. At least we can explain his name and add his year of birth and his stats from the 1952 Olympic tournament. Maybe you have some more info about his coaching carreer? Do you speak Hebrew? So you can also add his name in Hebrew language? Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 17:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Ralf Klein has an extensive page in Hebrew Wikipedia he:רלף קליין, which could be translated to English. The other players don't even have a stub in Hebrew...--Nitsansh (talk) 23:00, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

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