Talk:Basketball Federation of Serbia/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Recent addition by Klačko
Achievements by Serbia and Montenegro national teams are not relevant here. They belong to Basketball Federation of Serbia and Montenegro. This whole article is clearly about "Serbia", so post-2006 period. Chapter "National teams' medals" refers to a nation consisting Serbia, as "Basketball Federation of Serbia" represents Serbia. Serbia and Montenegro is a different nation, consisting of Serbia and Montenegro. So by the FIBA sources I added, it's no secret that achievents don't magically carry over to another team. The link You provided has 1 sentence about Serbia: "The Basketball Federation of Serbia will retain the place of the former Basketball Federation of Serbia and Montenegro as a FIBA member." - This does not mean that the 2 federations are the same thing or that the achievents are carried over to another nation. This is not enough evidence for Your addition, links I have provided [1] [2] prove my point (last one is also necessary as a reference, because the content of Wikipedia needs to be sourced and verifiable). --Pelmeen10 (talk) 05:36, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
RfC about including pre-2006 achievements by Serbia&Montenegro and Yugoslavia
There is a rough consensus that the "National teams' medals" section should not include "medals achieved before 2006 by Serbia&Montenegro and Yugoslavian team". Editors noted that there was insufficient research done to give RfC participants enough information about why the information should be included.
There is no prejudice against opening a new RfC to discuss including the information if and only if research is done and presented that supports inclusion.
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the "National teams' medals" section include medals achieved before 2006 by Serbia&Montenegro and Yugoslavian team? --Pelmeen10 (talk) 05:07, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
Survey
- No and neither does the governing body, FIBA. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 05:07, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
- Decline to participate (Summoned by bot) The first sentence in the body of the guideline talks about what to do before starting an Rfc and says: Before using the RfC process to get opinions from outside editors, it's often faster and more effective to thoroughly discuss the matter with any other parties on the related talk page. Editors are normally expected to make a reasonable attempt at working out their disputes before seeking help from others. I don't see that that has happened here. This Rfc is premature. Mathglot (talk) 05:53, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
- Concur with Mathglot, and we're not given enough info to go on anyway. Do (and post the result of) research before opening an RfC on a matter like this. So far, I lean toward Pelmeen10's no, since that's the only evidence we've been given so far. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 06:32, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- Concur with Mathglot - the nominator is evading recent discussion at Talk:Serbia_men's_national_basketball_team#This_article_is_utter_nonsense and several previous discussions about this matter, which have lot of supporting facts for and against the separation/merge of results and medals from 1992 to 2006 (FR Yugoslavia, 9m nation). Results and medals from 1945 to 1992 period (SFR Yugoslavia, 24m nation) have already been split. In fact, IMO User:Pelmeen10 has low level of ability to distinguish SFR Yugoslavia and FR Yugoslavia even though several users have tried to explain the difference. Not to talk about national teams of these countries.--AirWolf talk 06:54, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- AirWolf, we do have to provide sources to every claim in Wikipedia. That's what I did. This page is "Basketball Federation of Serbia", so here the question is do you distinguish Serbia&Montenegro (10.8 million population) and Serbia (7 million). --Pelmeen10 (talk) 13:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- On TP of national team of Serbia there have been lots of facts with sources for and against this merge/split, you can't follow only those that suit your opinion. Basketball federations manage national teams, so these discussions are on the same matter. I don't understand your logic to start a new (poorly lead) discussion here without trying to close a discussion on the same matter on other place. The consensus can't be different for federations and their national teams.--AirWolf talk 14:10, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- Also, FR Yugoslavia had 7.5 million people excluding the disputed territory of Kosovo.--AirWolf talk 14:13, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- Your own words: "The concensus was to split 1991-2006 results/medals/history from the article [about Serbian basketball team] and to create a new article about FR Yugoslavia, as FIBA and IOC consider Serbia as "new" country from 2006. I'll do it in free time" - so what's the problem now? The reason I started this Rfc is because Klačko insisted "a consensus" with me removing his additions (without sources) to this article and reverting my reverts twice. But the person has not provided any input in the talk page anyway. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 15:46, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- Yeah, those were my words, even though discussion never really ended. When I found that FIBA in its history results section treats Yugoslavia (YUG; 1945–2003), Serbia and Montenegro (SCG; 2003–2006) and Serbia (SRB; 2006-present) as different entities (with country abbreviations as main parameter for history section), I found a problem here. Too much confusing from FIBA, not to mention rankings and other issues. I won't write anymore on this thread as IMO there should be only one discussion at the time, and not two or three at the same time (about the same matter).--AirWolf talk 16:14, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- Both versions you mentioned, Serbian achievement start from 2006, and not before. On the day I started the Rfc (6 May), there was no discussion. Also the last discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball/Archive 13#Yugoslavia, Serbia went to archive (and a previous one). The discussion has been raised several times, and some Serbian editors won't accept the outcome. Btw, after the last one, User:Bozalegenda got blocked. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 16:46, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- Yeah, those were my words, even though discussion never really ended. When I found that FIBA in its history results section treats Yugoslavia (YUG; 1945–2003), Serbia and Montenegro (SCG; 2003–2006) and Serbia (SRB; 2006-present) as different entities (with country abbreviations as main parameter for history section), I found a problem here. Too much confusing from FIBA, not to mention rankings and other issues. I won't write anymore on this thread as IMO there should be only one discussion at the time, and not two or three at the same time (about the same matter).--AirWolf talk 16:14, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- Your own words: "The concensus was to split 1991-2006 results/medals/history from the article [about Serbian basketball team] and to create a new article about FR Yugoslavia, as FIBA and IOC consider Serbia as "new" country from 2006. I'll do it in free time" - so what's the problem now? The reason I started this Rfc is because Klačko insisted "a consensus" with me removing his additions (without sources) to this article and reverting my reverts twice. But the person has not provided any input in the talk page anyway. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 15:46, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- AirWolf, we do have to provide sources to every claim in Wikipedia. That's what I did. This page is "Basketball Federation of Serbia", so here the question is do you distinguish Serbia&Montenegro (10.8 million population) and Serbia (7 million). --Pelmeen10 (talk) 13:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.