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Talk:Barony of Akova

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Proposed additions

[edit]

There are different styles of formatting the text and I'm seeing a difference in some of the wording of the text, so I thought I'd start a summary here of proposed changes:

  1. Name (new) —The name of the town is derived from the Latin word for water, for the many sources of water in the area.[1] During the medieval period, the village was named "Akova" or "Matagrifon".[2] The Franks called it the castle of Mattegrifon, which meant stop[3] or kill lthe Greeks.[1][4]
  2. Barony established (diff)—The barony of Akova was established during the distribution of lands of the Byzantine Empire, which happened after the conquest of Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade (1202-1204). It was one of twelve baronies established within the Arcadia area of the Peloponnese region.[1][5]
  3. Barony 1209 (a little diff, also less detail) — In 1209, the barony was given to Gautier[1] or Walter of Rosières,[4] a Medieval French knight who participated in the Fourth Crusade. He was the first lord of the Barony of Akova that was then in the Frankish Greece Principality of Achaea. According to the Chronicle of the Morea, Rosières built the fortress of Avoka. The Franks began to called it the castle of Mattegrifon.[6]
  4. Walter's death (new)— A Walter of Rosières died childless about 1273.[1][4]
  5. Quote box (new)—Within the principality of Achaea…"the most important barony in a military point of view, and the largest in extent, was that of Akova. This barony embraced the valley of the Ladon, and the district that still retains the name of Achoves. It protected the rich valley of the Alpheus and the plains of Elis from the attacks of the Sclavonians, who occupied the mountains to the north and upper valley of the Alphas, immediately to the east of the possessions of the baron of Akova."|author=—A History of Greece [7]

References

  1. ^ a b c d e Source from Greek article: Εγκυκλοπαίδεια Πάπυρος Λαρούς Μπριτάννικα,τ.4
  2. ^ Setton, Kenneth M.; Hazard, Harry W. (September 1, 1977). A History of the Crusades: The Art and Architecture of the Crusader States. Univ of Wisconsin Press. p. 356. ISBN 978-0-299-06824-0.
  3. ^ Finlay, George (1877). A History of Greece: Mediaeval Greece and the empire of Trebizond, A.D. 1204-1461. Clarendon Press. p. 184.
  4. ^ a b c Bon, Antoine (1969). La Morée franque. Recherches historiques, topographiques et archéologiques sur la principauté d’Achaïe (in French). Paris: De Boccard.
  5. ^ Setton, Kenneth M. (1978). The Papacy and the Levant, 1204-1571: The Fifteenth Century. American Philosophical Society. p. 197. ISBN 978-0-87169-127-9.
  6. ^ Finlay, George (1877). A History of Greece: Mediaeval Greece and the empire of Trebizond, A.D. 1204-1461. Clarendon Press. p. 184.
  7. ^ Finlay, George (1877). A History of Greece: Mediaeval Greece and the empire of Trebizond, A.D. 1204-1461. Clarendon Press. p. 183.

I'm a little fried right now, but I can take a look later and underline the differences in numbers 2 and 3. I couldn't think of what do to with the name info here, so I was thinking maybe its own section.--CaroleHenson (talk) 12:13, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

1)the etymology from "aqua" seems very dubious and I wonder if it is really in the source of the Greek article. Antoine Bon writes that "the slavic etymology admitted as probable is not sure" and does not mention any other one (p.394). It seems hard to believe that the Greek name for a castle which bears another name in French (ie Mategriffon - Akova is not found in the French version of the Chronicle of the Morea, only in the Greek one) could have a Latin origin, without serious sourcing. (note that the disputed question of the proposed Slavic etymology of many Peloponnesian toponyms is ultra sensitive in Greece...)--Phso2 (talk) 13:07, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi CaroleHenson, and thanks for your interest in this article. My comments on the proposed changes are as follows:
1) As Phso2 commented, this is unlikely. The source is also very suspect. I have a long and sad experience with the Greek Wikipedia's often uncritical (over-)reliance on Greek encyclopaedias, and my default attitude is to distrust them as sources (unfortunately, the Greek WP itself is generally very unreliable, as many articles rely on blogs, tertiary sources, 19th-century works, etc.). In short, I would not include the possible Latin derivation of the name, unless another source came along. For the rest, it is already in the article.
2) The proposed changes are factually incorrect: neither the barony nor the very principality of Achaea were established at the Partitio, but independently by a band of Frankish Crusaders in 1205. And Akova was one of the 12 baronies of the entire principality, not of Arcadia.
3) As the article mentions, there is only Hopf's supposition about who was the "first" baron on the barony's establishment. The sources only mention Walter in ca. 1228, and that should be what we report as well. The rest of the info is also already in the article; furthermore, which of the lords of Akova actually built the castle is unknown, so linking it, even implicitly, with Walter, is incorrect.
4) Already mentioned in the article.
5) Finlay's opinion is interesting, and should be included, as he is an authority on Greek history. However for such a short article a quote box is overkill. I would simply quote these phrases at the end of the first paragraph, preceded by "According to the historian George Finlay,...".

Best regards, Constantine ✍ 14:22, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, then, I am glad I posted here first.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:34, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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