Talk:Barbadian British

Multiple issues

The citizenship section states:

The exact current numbers of Barbadian born people living in the UK and retaining Barbadian citizenship are unknown to the public, although the Home Office has released data about those who have surrendered Barbadian citizenship in order to become British citizens. The figures are shown in the table below. The number of Barbadians being granted British citizenship per annum has recently begun to decrease, unlike those from Jamaica (where an ever increasing number of people are being granted citizenship). Over recent years, for the first time ever other American nations such as Ecuador and Haiti are seeing larger numbers of immigrants to the UK than Barbados (which has a much larger and longer established community in the country). Also worth of note are the facts that data are unavailable for such statistics from the mid 20th Century when the largest number of Barbadians came to the UK, and second and third generation Barbadian Britons are already British citizens at birth.

There are a number of problems with this. Firstly, there is no source for the claim that the number of Barbadians in the UK is unknown. Just because a Wikipedia editor couldn't find it, doesn't mean this data doesn't exist. Secondly, just because Barbadians have obtained British citizenship, doesn't mean that they have surrendered Barbadian citizenship. Thirdly, there is no source for the statement about Eduadorians and Haitians. Finally, there is no source for the claim that data are unavailable for the mid-20th century.

As for the communities section, the statement that "In 2006, people of Afro-Caribbean origin in Birmingham, London, Nottingham, Slough and Manchester represented at least 6.1%, 5.3%, 4.7%, 3.4% and 3.2% of the local populations respectively. Roughly half of these are of Jamaican origin, with the remainder being predominantly Guyanese, Trinidadian and Barbadian amongst others" doesn't seem that relevant to the article. It might belong at British African-Caribbean community, but this article should be about Barbadians only. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:28, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, I know that the opening statement isn't sourced but surely it is obvious that these numbers are unknown as the last census to retrieve such information was taken almost a decade ago (and even tho it is likely that some Barbadian born people didn't actually state their birthplace as Barbados). Secondly, the Home Office document has a column reading 'citizens by previous nationality', I take it that this means that this was their former nationality that they no longer bear and not a case of dual-nationality etc (correct me if I am wrong). Thirdly, the Ecuadorian and Haitian comment can be supported, as looking at the data from the Home Office documents of people granted British citizenship over the past few years, more people from these countries had been granted British citizenship than those from Barbados (whilst the earliest documents I found showed the trend to be the other way round). Finally, I agree with you, I couldn't find it and I suppose there could be this information hidden away by the Home Office or whoever, feel free to remove this claim, Thanks (Stevvvv4444 (talk) 22:28, 27 May 2009 (UTC))

I understand your point, it is fairly vague, however as these places have large Afro-Caribbean populations there are bound to be significant numbers of Barbadians also. I thought it was worth mentioning since the UK census did not record individual nationalities/ ethnicities and their population spread like the US Census. (Stevvvv4444 (talk) 22:38, 27 May 2009 (UTC))

"Surely it is obvious" isn't a valid reason for including something on Wikipedia. All material needs to be verifiable. It's also quite possible that there's an estimate out there that we haven't found. On the citizenship point, the Home Office document wording is slightly confusing in that sense. It is perfectly possible for people applying for British citizenship to retain their previous citizenship and thus be dual nationals. Regarding Eduadorians and Haitians, the Home Office data is on citizenship, not immigration (one can migrate without changing citizenship), and since we don't have data going back a long time, I don't think we can support the claim that this is happening "for the first time ever".

As for "there are bound to be significant numbers of Barbadians also", this reasoning also fails to meet the varifiability requirement. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:25, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I guess it falls to me to fix this. I'll have a go today. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:09, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Citizenship statistics

I have overhauled the grants of citizenship statistics table. I removed the years 1993-96 since the source given did not have data for these years. Each year is now individually referenced to that year's statistical document on the Home Office website. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:12, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm guessing

I'm going to go out of a limb here and say perhaps the New West Indian Guide might be more credible? There was a write-in piece in the Barbados Advocate and there's not telling exactly how accurate it is. It seems to list 8.1 percent of Barbados' population emigrating to the UK while the reference here is quoted as 12 percent?

• A museum exhibit for the West Indian migration story - 28 April 2010, Barbados Advocate

The two figures relate to different (albeit overlapping) time periods, so there's no reason why they can't both be correct. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:55, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

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