Talk:Baptists

Erroneous view of Baptists

Hi there! Classifying Baptists as Protestants is incorrect—protestants broke off from the Orthodoxy; the Baptists pre-date both (and have been persecuted mercilessly by both groups). Calling Baptists "Protestants" is erroneous. J-marcus-gray (talk) 23:18, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

This minority view is clearly covered in the origins section. Ἀλήθεια 23:01, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Totally

agree 2601:285:401:5F90:AD6F:5541:B3E5:7893 (talk) 04:40, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Baptists have been incorrectly labeled “Protestants” as defined by the page covering Protestantism. The Baptists did not originate as a result of the Reformation, nor did they deviate from the Catholic Church. Although the term from which the moniker ‘Baptist’ originated (Ana-baptist)did become prevalent around the time of the Reformation, there is a clear record of churches which held the tenets of the Ana-baptists from the first century A.D. Dale Schwarz Jr. (talk) 14:38, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

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Association of churches

Hello Desmay (talk · contribs) and Alanscottwalker (talk · contribs). Thank you for your contributions. I appreciate your efforts in seeking information that is true and representative of reality. My approach is the same. A-Regarding, the American Baptist Churches USA, you are right. But the introduction reminds us that there are evangelical orientations in this association. This association is a member of the Baptist World Alliance, which considers itself evangelical. So, it's fair to say that a member of an evangelical association can be identified as evangelical. However, I haven't changed anything on this subject in this article and that was not the aim of the modifications... B-Regarding the use of the word associations to talk about these groups, either the aim of the modifications of good faith. The term denomination is well used (examples: by general books about religion or Christianity) to talk about these groups of churches. This is not bad in itself. However, a large part of the websites of these associations and many wiki articles have used the term association consensually for many years:

Example 1: Nagaland Baptist Church Council : 2013‎ [1]- 2018 [2]). Example 2: Baptist Convention of Hong Kong : 2008‎ [3]- 2019 [4]). Example 3: Myanmar Baptist Convention :2003[5]- 2018 [6]). Example 4: Canadian Baptist Ministries :2003[7]]- 2013 [[8]. Example 5: North American Baptist Conference :2003[9]- 2022 [10]. Example 6: Baptist Churches of New Zealand :2003[11]- 2019 [12]. Example 7: Baptists Together :2003[13]- 2020 [14]).

And this is what led me to do further research to find that they were right. Indeed, scholars specializing in the study of Baptist Christianity and certain evangelical movements have demonstrated that the word association of churches is more representative when speaking of these groups. I added the citations in the references. I'm glad to have spoken with you, your questions helped improve my explanations on the subject. I am confident that we will find a peaceful solution together. A Merry Christmas in advance! Thanks for your help. My best wishes of peace and love (Wikipedia:WikiLove).--Nathan B2 (talk) 15:02, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

My take on both these is it is mostly a matter of semantics, based on how strictly some people define "denomination" or "evangelical". The first organized national group in the United States the Triennial Convention convention had no problem with "Baptist denomination" in their name (I'm fine with explaining the nuance in the article but it's not "wrong" to call various Baptist groups "denominations" although it may need explaining). As for "evangelical" in the US, it seems to have moved from a religious concept to especially in secular writing a political (or sociological) concept, American Baptists are likely evangelical in older religious sense, even if not in the newer political or sociological sense. Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:12, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

There are some Baptist denominations that refer to themselves as denominations, while others might refer to themselves in a different term. Nathan B2 can't remove that term and replace it in every single Baptist article. NPOV for this article will be to use "denomination" and "association", while having the neutral heading of "churches". desmay (talk) 18:03, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello Desmay (talk · contribs) and Alanscottwalker (talk · contribs). Thank you for your contributions. As you pointed out, some consider themselves more of an association. I therefore believe that it would be right (Wikipedia:Neutral point of view) to put this expression back for those who consider themselves this way according to the specific references and websites of the latter. Thanks for your help. My best wishes of peace and love (WikiLove).--Nathan B2 (talk) 16:37, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

The article already says "denomination or association" in the churches section, that seems to cover it. For almost every ordinary English reader, it makes no difference. -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:47, 29 January 2024 (UTC)