Talk:Bankruptcy of Penn Central

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet (talk) 09:54, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

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• Article history

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• ... that the bankruptcy of Penn Central in 1970 was the largest in American history at the time? Source: George Drury, "Penn Central history remembered" [1] Classic Trains Magazine
  • ALT1: ... that American company Penn Central entered bankruptcy in 1970 as a railroad, and emerged eight years later as an insurance company that survives today? Source: [2] "Penn Central Is Alive, And Well, On Its Own" Spartanburg Herald, and [3] "Companies betting on name game" The Albany Herald
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Eye (Alexander McQueen collection)

Created by Trainsandotherthings (talk). Self-nominated at 22:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Bankruptcy of Penn Central; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Will review. Longhornsg (talk) 22:32, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

  If your idea of reviewing is to nominate the article for deletion, maybe let someone else review instead? Trainsandotherthings (talk) 00:50, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

  I guess it's tough love. EEng 17:16, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

  I do think the multiple authors of books on the subject would be rather surprised to hear it's not notable enough for Wikipedia. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:37, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

  Surely you know by now to look at my posts from several different angles. The Penn Central bankruptcy was a landmark, and obviously notable. EEng 22:50, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

  That went completely over my head. Guess that's what happens when you edit while tired. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 23:58, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

• This nomination still needs an actual review. Epicgenius (talk) 13:04, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Length, reference and history verified. I am pleased that fate put me in the position to review this nomination ... it's sort of the completion of a multi-generational circle, I guess. My father, when I was but an infant, wound up working on this case early in his legal career; it would lead him to specialize in bankruptcy law (And on his end, his father, my grandfather who died several years before I was born, worked as a conductor on the Central a century ago).

I like ALT0 very much ... it's nice and punchy. But if we were to instead go with ALT1, I would suggest a reworded version for two reasons: First, to say that something "survives today" is redundant; if it survives, the "today" is understood. Second, the first part of the hook is wordier than it needs to be. And maybe we can combine the two hook facts if we tighten things up, and bold the part that will get clicks. So ...

ALT2: ... that eight years after the largest bankruptcy in American history at that time, the Penn Central railroad became an insurance company? Daniel Case (talk) 03:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

That is quite a funny coincidence. My only concern with the proposed ALT2 is that the company was not known as the "Penn Central railroad". Trainsandotherthings (talk) 15:39, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Notability

In light of today's abortive attempt at deletion, I respond with the following:

• Penn Central history ended with bankruptcy. That was a cataclysmic event, both to the railroad industry and to the nation’s business community. The PC and its problems were the subject of more words than almost anything else in the railroad industry, everything from diatribes on the passenger business to analyses of the reason for PC’s collapse. [4]
• The 100+ page report published by the SEC just on the bankruptcy
• At the time, Penn Central was the sixth largest corporation in the U.S., and its bankruptcy was the largest in American history. Penn Central’s infamous failure remained the largest U.S. bankruptcy for more than 30 years until Enron eclipsed it in 2001. [5]

This is perhaps the least understandable deletion/merger attempt I have ever seen. Did you think about maybe doing a quick Google search first? Trainsandotherthings (talk) 00:56, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

I completely agree; the article being too short is not a valid reason for deletion. Within five seconds (I'm not exaggerating), I found these sources on ProQuest:

• "Penn Central Files Bankruptcy Petition", Wall Street Journal, 22 June 1970: 3.
• "Penn Central bankruptcy: latest chapter in long story", Boston Globe, 22 June 1970: 17.
• "The Pennsy Case: Viewing Section 77", Washington Post, 1 July 1973: K1.
• "Railroad tax case studied: Penn Central bankruptcy involves $4.5 million here", Baltimore Sun, 25 Sep 1977: B1
• "Penn Central bankruptcy casts long shadow over railroads", The Christian Science Monitor, 23 June 1970: 4.
• "Bid Filed to End Penn Central's Bankruptcy Case: U.S., Big Creditor Groups Endorse Trustees' Plan to Reorganize Ex-Railroad", Wall Street Journal, 20 Dec 1976: 2.

The fact that I found these sources in five seconds (I didn't even include the various WSJ and NYT articles about what happened during the bankruptcy itself) means that the article could probably easily be 5x expanded and still be eligible for DYK. It should not have been nominated for AFD under these circumstances. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:35, 16 August 2023 (UTC)