Talk:Bambini-Code

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Notability

This article is short and mostly just a list. Is any of this notable, or can anything be done to create an article worth keeping? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:21, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The references cited don't make WP:N. This needs third party references to show that it is worth including as an article. The one ref used is unreliable and WP:SPS. Furthermore I think the article runs afoul of WP:NOTDIRECTORY, by including the list of code words themselves. Unless reliable independent third party refs can be cited it should probably be sent for deletion. - Ahunt (talk) 10:45, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Bambini-Code is a vital part of the Swiss Air Force, it was until 1998 the standart Radiocomunication of the Swiss Air Force, and it is still in use for the Displayteams. I didn't found the Bambinicode in english in the internet so a translation of a few of the around 500 words here is right.

Here about the Bambini Code on the Swiss Air Force Homepage.[1] Bambinicode in use between a MirageIIIS and a TFC on the Florida Radar System at 5:35 on youtube [2]

Its very dissapointing that you allways go for deleting basic informations about the swiss Military aviatic, I don't see why there should be no page about the Bambini-code but the page about the Brevity code. FFA P-16 (talk) 11:10, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Having a list of codewords is not always unacceptable. As FFA P-16 points out we have the full Multiservice tactical brevity code. And there are more examples in Category:Brevity codes. Adequate references may or may not exist, that is one reason I have asked the question. We have enough trouble attracting editors knowledgeable about non-English cultures, I would prefer to encourage where possible - and help out with our impossible language, grin. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 12:33, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't a question of whether it exists or not, it is all about whether it is notable enough for an encyclopedia article and that all hinges on finding reliable third party refs to prove notability. The refs don't have to be in English - any language will do. - Ahunt (talk) 13:14, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well of corse I won't go and would write down all about 500 words this would be too much, bout giving an example of the most used with the english word (I did not found that allready exist a Bambini-Code / english page).

I have add now some more references ,One is on the Homepage of the Swiss Air Force (german only), this pirivate homepage in german, and the 2 youtube clips, where you can see they use it in the 1960 to guid a MirageIIIS fighter and the use in the PC-7Team in 2010,I think this should proofe it (to bad I have not found simelar proofe in english).I knew my inglsh is not well but on the other hand I would like that people from everywhere who are interestet in Swiss military aviatic can finde some informations,bout it and share what I knew about it. FFA P-16 (talk) 13:35, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Ahunt, yes, it's whether adequate references exist to demonstrate notability. I'd suggest that the Swiss Air Force website is authoritative enough, and it seems a good start. @FFA P-16. The other two references you give may help confirm some more detail, but care is needed as YouTube is not usually authoritative. Perhaps somebody has published a book or a magazine article which includes an explanation? It can be in Schweizerdeutsch, French or Tibetan, as long as it is a bona fide publication. Do any of the other language Wikipedias, say French or German, have an article on the Swiss Air Force Bambini-code? If so, they might have some references you could adopt. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 15:24, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

[Update]. OK, so the French and German wikis have even worse articles than ours. I hope I have tidied our article enough that it can be taken seriously and not summarily put up for deletion. Of course, if time is unkind to it then that will happen eventually, but at least it might now have a fair trial. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 16:46, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@ Steelpillow Like you have seen, the articel about the bambini-Code exist in french Wikipedia and german wikipedia no one of thes 2 were made from me , id just add very few things. On one hand i cant write french so i wont go to translate words to french, at the german wikipedia I think the link to the external page woh "translate" Bambini-code to german is well enough (in the english wikipedia I "translatet" it just because i didn't found in the www a page showing this in english). Thank you for adding more references. I knew you can't take every information on youtube as fact. But the clip I add is from the Swiss Air Force , PC-7Team it work well as "audio" example, the clip it self is just a part of the PC-7DVD made by the Swiss Air Force. FFA P-16 (talk) 18:55, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly I cannot play audio on my PC, so I cannot judge your YouTube clip. At least the English wiki article is now in better shape than any native Swiss language wiki! ;-) — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 19:00, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

oh this is realy bad if you have no audio on your computer (not only because the clip where you can see&hear dem using Bambinicode, I use my computer to watch such clips, but watching also full movies or listen to music or phone with skype). Yes the english Articel is now better than the french and the german (swiss german is only a spoken language so we have to share the german wikipedia, this create sometimes problems because in Germany things are sometime differend used in the language than here or in austria). FFA P-16 (talk) 20:54, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think the article now meets WP:V, so with those improvements I have removed the tags. - Ahunt (talk) 21:05, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Swiss Air Force reference would not be independent enough for notability. The book link gives a single passing mention. There's a self-published source, a pdf that I can't find the word "Bambini" in, and a non-independent video. The website describes itself as "eine private Homepage" which implies self-published as well. GraemeLeggett (talk) 11:59, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That said the content listing the words is probably not notable content. On what basis is the selection made? GraemeLeggett (talk) 11:59, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the pdf, try Page 7, second headline. I agree the references are weak but this is a new article and we need to allow some time for it to build. A topic little-known in the English-speaking world is going to be a little hard for us to track down, especially as the national resources will be scattered across three languages - in at least one of which the phrase "Bambini-code" is reversed ("Le code Bambini") while googling the two words without grouping them turns up all sorts of other stuff. I suspect that the selection is copied from somebody's blog and the original translations came courtesy of Google Translate (I cleaned up a good few), so that is up for grabs, though I'd suggest that at least some examples are needed to give the flavour of the code. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 14:06, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed page 7 it is - don't know why "find" in Adobe reader didn't locate it! I accept that as a new article and probably reliant on non-English sources we should give it time. However we shouldn't not acknowledge that it is has - for the moment - notability issues.

On the second part - and perhaps this will come with the sources - some examples yes, but preferably with some background as to why these came about. (I suspect that the name of the code itself is a pun on "baby talk") GraemeLeggett (talk) 14:33, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum - just had another good look at the words, most of the ones given are actually just Italian or French with no added meaning and it could use more of the Fox type of code.GraemeLeggett (talk) 14:38, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@GraemeLeggett, Most of the words in the Bambini-Code are Italian then french and a few are swissgerman, the reason of this is because the native pronunication of this words was easy to hear in the bad radio conection in the noisy aircrafts of the pre WW2 time. Some worts are also just made up,( Like Rera for right), also in the Bambini-Code often the meaning of the word was not the same as in the language it is usualy.Diaboli = Enemy aircraft (but Diaboli is in Englis Little Devil), Nase (german for Nose) means stragiht a head, carello is italian for shopping cart, but in the Bammbinicode this is the word for Landing gear. FFA P-16 (talk) 21:39, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]