Talk:Balrog/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:34, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Right...twist me arm....I'm up for this....queries below Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:34, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Having my pet Balrog twist your arm might be terminal! Many thanks for taking this on.... Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:47, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Earwigs copyvio is okay - inflated scores from quotes so no biggie...

Noted.

An old and well-circulated story is this, which would be good to get a reliable source for - I have a vague memory of Gygax wanting to use Balrogs in D&D but was warned by copyright (???) - so maybe there are instances of Tolkien estate stopping use of Balrogs somewhere....

It sounds very nearly mentionable ...

Now am off on a tangent.....back soon. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:05, 23 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Right, got it Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:08, 23 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, great find! I've popped it into the article. Now, why does that mandolin-playing halfling remind me of a young Jimmy Wales? Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:30, 23 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks pretty comprehensive. Funny seeing so much discussion on wings/no wings in talk page archives. Writing is okay at first rad. Will have another read later as in a bit of a rush now....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:07, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks!

Try and avoid 1-2 sentence paras if possible...incidentally Odin/Baleygr reminds me of Balor of the Evil Eye...circular with Gygax shifting Balrogs to Balor....oh the synergies...

Ah yes, I wrote a section Sauron#Celtic Balor of the Evil Eye, where Balor's Eye is likened to Sauron's Lidless Eye. The Balor/Balrog thing seems no more than a coincidence, however:

“Nuada, the first High King of the Tuatha De Danaan, perishes in the Battle of Moytura North at the hands of the Fomorian king Balor (who, in a sequence of unavoidably suspicious similarities, is also called the Evil Eye, and who resides in the Tower of Glass). Feanor [sic], who of all the Noldor is deemed "mightiest in word and deed," is killed in the Second Battle of the Wars of Beleriand by Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs and servant of Sauron. These are no removed alfar [sic]; they are warlords who willingly trade immortality for a glorious death in battle” (Kinniburgh, p 7).

The “suspicious similarities” refer to Sauron, chief antagonist of The Lord of the Rings. His own “Evil Eye”, fiery, all-seeing, mounted on a tall, black tower, is in image most people today will be familiar with. The typographic similarity between “Balor” and “Balrog” is likely coincidental, but interesting to note nonetheless. ("Walking in Legends: A Comparative Analysis" by Luke Schouwenaars, 2016, but it's just a BA thesis, and no real connection is established) Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:48, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I'll pay that....

~~It first appeared in print in his high fantasy novel The Lord of the Rings...~~ ~~- "One first appeared in print in his high fantasy novel The Lord of the Rings" - there are more than one...?~~

Done.

~~I'd mention they were/are Maiar in the lead somehow~~

Done.

This source is fascinating - I figure more could be incorporated from here - the link with Beowulf is interesting too - eg ambiguity of balrog's from reminiscent of the ambiguity of form of Grendel (and his mum). The structure of LOTR and hte role the balrog has in removing gandalf from the narrative - fascinating stuff

Added a bit on whips of flame, and another on the Grendel ambiguity. And the Glorfindel/Gandalf vs Balrog and the falling into the abyss thing.