Talk:Balloon modelling/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Balloon modelling. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Professionals use Sharpies?

In Simple techniques: "The most common marker used on latex is a Sharpie" and "(Note: Professionals do not use Sharpies on balloons it comes off on kids hands and Clothes)"

Most magicians I know use sharpies (It's a bit of a running gag). I'm not a professional twister, but I'm asuming that sharpies would work quite well on balloons.

Someone who knows want to take this bit out? VIQleSthe2nd (talk) 02:48, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Professionals DO use Sharpies, they do not come off on children's hands OR clothes unless the balloons deflate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.27.28.180 (talk) 04:38, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Merge?

I have created a link to the other article on the subject entitled Balloon animal, which seems to have gone unnoticed. Rather than merging the two, it might be a good idea to keep and expand both, focusing on the various techniques in one and on the results in the other. However, I myself do not have enough knowledge to do it, but someone else surely will. <K F> 17:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Seems to me that a merge would make sense, since there appears to be ample overlap between the two articles.Fishal 22:29, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree - there's already duplication, and a merge would avoid confusion. There's no clear distinction between "balloon animals" and "balloon modelling" in most people's minds, I don't think. Joel.Gilmore 00:26, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Added merge tag per this discussion. -- 12.106.111.10 20:26, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with that, I questioned this myself before making my modifications. But peronally think "Balloon Twisting" should be the primary table rather than "balloon modelling." 143.165.168.50 Ooops didn't log in (Balloonman) 20:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I've merged the two, but it could do with a good thorough cleanup. violet/riga (t) 14:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

     I addressed this below in "Is this correct?", but are we catering to an American or European crowd?  The word "modeling" has varying spellings. Please see item after "Pictures??" LondonTaxi (talk) 07:38, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Dry Erase???

I've never met a balloon twister who uses dry erase markers on balloons. In fact, in all of my experience dry erase markers are an extremely poor choice for the very reason that makes them popular on white boards---the ink is designed to be wiped off. When used on balloons this remains the case. I am going to change this section, but am open to somebody else's experience with dry-erase markers.Balloonman 21:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I know several twisters who use dry erase exclusively, and I use it most of the time -- could this be a regional thing? They don't smear any more than permanent markers do, but this may depend on the brand. I've tried several, and find that the generic brand from Staples office supply stores work very well, are quite inexpensive and last quite a long time. The advantage of using dry erase is that when the balloon pops or deflates, the ink doesn't come off the scrap in that highly staining powder. I've been very happy with it, although I do use Sharpies as well.

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this, as I know it's a point of some controversy. It's obviously in the minority, but wouldn't it be acceptable to make mention of the option? The previous version clearly implied that Sharpies were what all twisters use, and that's simply not true. I've made a small change to clarify: are we getting closer? Lauridg 19:14, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I don't think the previous article said that Sharpies were the exclusive. If you've had success with dry erase, I have no problem leaving it there, but I've never had success with Dry Erase Markers. Balloonman 20:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Oops sorry - didn't read this bit all the way through. i'll stick taht back in. VIQleSthe2nd (talk) 03:20, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

The way it reads now it seems like a mistake - is it worth rewriting that bit? "Some brands of DEM can be used on balloons and won't smudge or rub off" etc? VIQleSthe2nd (talk) 03:28, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Russian Blog

What is the policy regarding links in foreign languages? My guess is that this is somebody adding their personal webpage/advertisement, but I can't read it. Balloonman 21:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Also removed * 100+ balloon animals instructions from the fewdoit project as it didn't seem to have any balloon pictures, was an inaccurate link are maybe a website that is down. dirkjot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirkjot (talk • contribs) 20:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

copied text from another website

The section entitled "History: The Inventor of Balloon Twisting" appears to have been directly copied from another website - here and probably other places too. I have therefore blanked the section. Here is a link to the version before I removed it. Please rewrite. Witty lama 20:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Note: I wrote the original and have since re-written for Wikipedia. Plese do not delete as the information is accurate and original. 71.234.105.169 02:07, 27 March 2007 (UTC)JM

Rewriting does not mean adding a "*" in front of the different paragraphs. It means rewriting and obtaining original unbiased research. Since you are signing this as JM and claim to have written the original [which was written by Joseph Maar] then I am going to assume that this is Henry Maar's son Joseph Maar? If it is, then you should note wikipedia's policies concerning original research. Wikipedia is not the place for OR. I will also note that while some people find your evidence 'compelling,' they also note that IF your hypothesis is true that the history of balloon twisting will need to be updated.[1] Eg your position on your father is NOT established fact. You are by far and away not a neutral source on this subject---despite your association with major balloon companies and apparent Emmy award!Balloonman 18:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Much more was done than adding a "*" -- as someone in the industry for over a decade in the 70's I knew firsthand the information and can cite others who relayed to me the same plus brochures and posters predating other written evidence. This is not OR.unsigned comment by 216.205.224.10

Again, I'm assuming this is JM---Joseph Maar, the son of Henry Marr, reposting a letter that he has sent to numerous sources in an effort to get his father recognized as the originator of balloon twisting. This is the epitome of OR---which you acknowledged in your last posting a few months ago "accurate and original". The fact that you "knew first hand" makes it a first person account and OR, which you acknowledged a few months ago "I wrote the original and have since re-written for Wikipedia." Independent sources state that your evidence is "compelling" but do not acknowledge it as indisputable---they have simply republished your letter stating that it a letter they received. In fact, they state that if your claims are accurate, then the history of balloon twisting will have to be rewritten. Wikipedia cannot allow for simple copying and pasting of original research/statements that are published elsewhere--especially if you are the originator of the hypothesis. Your "rewrite" remains essentially the same as the letter you've given to other sources---in each case, the other location discloses that it is your belief/interpretation/understanding. They do not state that your father was the originator of balloon twisting. You are free, welcome in fact, to make a request for comments but I can pretty much guarantee that your reversions will be deleted as against policy and OR.Balloonman 23:29, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

In general outline I agree with Balloonman, but have a few thoughts to add...

It would be good for Wikipedia to be right about the origins of balloon twisting. JM, I find your narrative compelling.
However, as Balloonman writes, WP isn't the appropriate first outlet. Also, it's generally not considered good form here to make article edits to which one is personally connected (cf WP:COI). Suggestions, including relevant links, are very welcome here on the talk page.
To the extent original source media is available-- eg, images of flyers advertising Henry Marr's shows, images of props, video interviews with old-timer colleagues-- it may be suitable for upload to commons: and reference in this article.Jeremy Tobacman 01:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I have no problems if somebody wanted to write an objective history that included other stories concerning the origins of balloon twisting---but the claim that Henry Maar WAS the founder is not supported by independent sources. And the facts that this inclusion is virtually identical to a letter published elsewhere.Balloonman 01:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I've created an article on Henry Maar, he does appear to have been a notable balloon twister. I'm not convinced that he is the original balloon twister, I don't think anybody will ever really know. But I did summarize Joseph Maar's letter and attributed the case to Joseph Maar, while indicating that the jury is still out on the subject as a whole.Balloonman 03:21, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you balloonman. I've cited physical evidence being supplied to balloon history site(s) supporting clains about Henry Maar including a 1968 newspaper article citing back then his "30-years" of experience and old brochures, posters, films/videos. I will upload them here (or put in the links) as I learn how and am able. JM 2:22m 6, November 2007

Joseph, if you have a picture of your father performing it would be a great addition to the Henry Maar article. BTW, congratulations on your third emmy... what was it for? I'm guessing that it was in 2007?Balloonman 15:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, again, balloonman. I have recently moved, am now with Fox Sports Net North, and am just now unboxing things of my fathers. Yesterday, I found a couple of article that help date things with my dad and balloon animals -- though still may not be as conclusive as some would like it makes a strong case. One is from 1957 or 58 where he talks about having started blowing balloons "27 years ago" (note he was not yet performing, just doing them on his own) and another from 1968 where it talks about him being in show business for 30 years (he started as an acrobat and moved quickly to magic and balloons). Also, I have a 1945 letter from a comedy museum asking his agent if he could be included in the museum for his work as a balloon animal maker -- guess at that time they saw his act in a comedy category, go figure! Anyway, I'm looking for help to have someone verify all of this so folks are not just taking my word. I will touch base with Balloon HQ folks but if you'd be able to help in any way, I would appreciate it. I have several old photos from back then as well... but still don't know how to upload them! (BTW, you asked about my third Emmy. It was awarded in 2007 for an ESPN series I did in 2006.) All the best! JM 19:52, 28 April 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.16.216 (talk)

Pictures?

It would be nice if this article were illustrated with pictures of balloon models. --62.211.231.26 00:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I added the most recent photos that I had a local balloon artist, Peter John Linday, provide some as a demonstration of variations in balloon art. If you need more, or want anything specific, please ask and I can see if I can get him to make it. LondonTaxi (talk) 06:59, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

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