Talk:Balin (Middle-earth)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 17:17, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to review the article on one of my favourite characters from The Hobbit/LoTR.

Many thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:41, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Review comments

Lead section/infobox

A dwarf – capital D or small d (the article it links to seems to say Dwarf})?

Upper case it is.

colony – I'm unsure about the use of this word in the article, as the modern term generally refers to places ruled by (European) foreigners, and I don't think is ever used by Tolkien, who seems only to refer to Balin and his followers as 'returning' to Moria.

It's hard to know what else to call it, and "colony" is widely used of Balin's Moria by scholars such as Hammond, Obertino, and Arvidsson, as well as by fans and gamers, i.e. a wide range of kinds of people. As such, the word will be readily understood by readers.

Understood. AM

Balin has featured – ‘Balin featured’?

Done.

old gold – as all gold is by its nature old, can this phrase not be avoided (it also occurs in the Adaptations section)?

Hm. Since the gold here means "things made of gold", the pieces could certainly be old or new in principle: it isn't a tautology. "Old" is important in this case, as the Dwarf-gold was stolen long ago by the dragon, and it has remained in Dwarvish memory, festering away and corrupting their minds (which of course was Tolkien's point).

Understood (and accepted). AM

1 Literature

The quote seems purely illustrative to me. if you feel one is needed, would not a quote from The Hobbit be more justifiable?

Gosh. It's certainly the most powerfully dramatic and indeed poignant moment in the story of Balin. The Hobbit is a children's book, and the treatment of Balin is somewhere between light and whimsical most of the time. Being a sentry outwitted by Bilbo with the ring is I guess a curious moment, but it's actually 95% about the ring with Balin as a plot device... I'd leave the quote as it is.

That's fine, I can see what you mean. AM.

1.1 Early life

Introduce Smaug, e.g. ‘the dragon Smaug’.

Done.

1.2 The Hobbit

Balin was a dwarf member - consider amending to ‘Balin was a member’. as it has already been stated he was a dwarf.

Done.

The second dwarf to arrive at Bilbo's house at the beginning of The Hobbit, preceded by his brother Dwalin – this is surely excessive detail for an encyclopaedia article.

Simplified. I hope I don't need to point out that arriving first is never an accident in Tolkien's writing.

Balin was part of the company assembled by Thorin – this has already been stated, and does not need to be repeated here.

Gone.

Ditto his brother Dwalin, in Like his brother Dwalin.

Gone.

Other than Thorin, he was the only one who had been at the Mountain before the dragon came – this needs to be clarified (or corrected), as according to The Hobbit, Thorin was amongst others when the dragon arrived (“Some of the dwarves, who happened to be outside”, p31 ).

Done.

the Elvenking captured the dwarves, as they did not at first realise that Thorin had been imprisoned – I would copy edit this, e.g. by swapping captured and imprisoned, as it was the king's people who captured the dwarves, and the king who imprisoned them.

Yes, much better.

the secret Erebor passage to Smaug - why to Smaug?

Gone.

He was the only one who volunteered to accompany Bilbo – but in the story (p303) he was the only dwarf who offered to look for Bilbo in the darkness, which is not quite the same thing.

Fixed.

in Bag End – ‘at Bag End’?

Done.

1.3 The Lord of the Rings

Shouldn’t the dwarves linked to List of The Hobbit characters be linked to List_of_The_Hobbit_characters#Thorin's_company?

I've linked that in the The Hobbit section, seems to work there.

In the caption, The inscription reads "Balin Son of Fundin, Lord of Moria" reiterates what the text in the section, so is it needed here?

Because some readers look only at the lead and the images? I was always taught to make images and captions support the text, but to stand alone as a quick way into the article.

Understood. AM

2 Analysis

In the article "Völuspá" the poem's title is in italics, which I think is correct.

Done.

Malory should be introduced, and amended to 'Sir Thomas Malory'.

Done.

not nearly as likeable a character – although it isn't, this sounds close to being editorial, and I would mention that it is Rateliff who describes Sir Balin in this way (on p.24).

Good point, attributed.

I’m unclear why the image caption needs a citation.

Er, because Wikipedians are an argumentative lot? We could comment it out if you insist, but it's definitely safer to have a citation in place when any sort of claim is made in a caption.

Not insisting here. AM

3 Adaptations

All the text of 1977 animated version of The Hobbit is linked, but only The Hobbit is linked in Jackson's live-action film series of The Hobbit. (minor point about consistency)

Fixed.

his ancestors – ‘Balin’s ancestors’, for the sake of clarity.

Done.

6 References

Rateliff has a url here which you might wish to include.

Added.

Ref 6 (Whitaker) - The Scotsman should be written in italics, and the retrieval date should be added (for the sake of consistency within the section).

Added date. The "newspaper" parameter gives a red warning message if italics are added.

Italics sorted. AM

Links

There are some strange examples of linking which might be unexpected to some readers, as they don't lead to an article with the name of the topic that is linked. Sometimes the article readers are sent to has little or no useful information. Examples - Balin's colony; Blue Mountains; Bag End; Thráin II, Green Dragon Inn, etc.. Why does the article have these links? (See MOS:LINKCLARITY)

There is both textual and graphical information at the ends of most of these links, but some of them weren't accurately (re)directed after deletions and mergers. Added a link anchor in Moria for "#Balin's colony". Clarified the text and image caption for the Blue Mountains in Geography of Middle-earth. Added a link anchor in The Shire for "#Bag End". Removed link to Thráin II. Changed link target for "Green Dragon Inn".

The following duplicate links should not generally appear in an article this short (see MOS:DUPLINK): Dwalin; Smaug; Erebor; Mirkwood; The Fellowship of the Ring; orcs; Book of Mazarbul.

Fixed.

On hold

An interesting article, with mostly only minor points raised in my review. I'm putting the article on hold for a week until 27 August to allow time for the issues raised to be addressed. Regards,

Amitchell125: Many thanks for the review, and the kind words. I think I've addressed all the points. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:57, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Passing

Passing now, thanks for all your great work. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:29, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]