Talk:Bahuchar Mata Temple, Becharaji

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by Narutolovehinata5 talk 00:24, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

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• ... that the Bahuchar Mata Temple in Becharaji, India, is a key pilgrimage site where the transgender community worship the goddess Bahuchara Mata, who is revered as their patroness?

• Source: https://historified.in/2022/06/21/prideofied-bahuchara-mata-the-patron-goddess-of-hijrahs/

• Source: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Driving-through-the-queer-legends-of-Bahucharaji/articleshow/10612670.cms

• Reviewed:
• Comment: Submitting this due to pride month

Created by Amadavadi (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Amadavadi (talk) 11:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC).

• @Amadavadi A {{cn}} tag needs to be resolved in the Festival section, also a more academic source would be prefered for the hook (I'm unsure about the reliability of historified.in). Sohom (talk) 15:03, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
• Amadavadi has alleviated my concerns, however, I've made a few copy edits to the hook and would recuse from doing a full review. It would be nice to get a second review to approve the article. Sohom (talk) 20:13, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
• The last paragraph doesn't match the source. I also have a question before I continue the review. Sohom Datta changed "hijra community" to "transgender community" with the edit summary "hijra can be perceived as derogatory". AirshipJungleman29 changed it back with the edit summary "why are we talking about the western concept of transgender?". I don't want the article to cause issues while on the main page because of something that can be perceived as derogatory, but I agree with Airship at the moment because the article is titled Hijra (South Asia). SL93 (talk) 10:19, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
  • The South Asian conception of hijra is related, but different, to the Western concept of transgender (hijra can refer to people who aren't transgender). While hijra has occasionally been termed derogatory (nowhere near as much as "gypsy" for the Romani people), it is the WP:COMMONNAME for the community and far more clear and precise than "transgender community". ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:29, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
    • To my understanding, there are two seperate uses of the term hijra. Firstly it is used as a identity for a group of people, and is the WP:COMMONNAME for that particular community (as AirshipJungleman29 mentions). Secondly, for a large swaths of the Indian public, it is considered an insult and/or derogatory term that is levelled at men who are considered to be acting in a feminine manner. In this case, the term is being used in the former way (which is fine), but given the words other meaning, I have some reservations about it being misinterpreted and miscontextualized especially if it put on the main page as a hook. Sohom (talk) 17:47, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
      • They are not separate uses—for many, calling someone a hijra is insulting. Regardless, to use "transgender" is far more inappropriate. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:01, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
        • I'm probably missing something wrt to why "transgender" which often colloquially used to denote the same community in India is more inappropriate than a word that is pretty regularly used as an insult. We could wordsmith further, but this discussion seems moot given that the nomination has been rejected. Sohom (talk) 05:02, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
• I am failing this. Where is the information coming from? Most of the sources I can check don't match the article. The first source matches, and I can't get the second source to translate using a tool. The hook's source says nothing about "a key pilgrimage site" or the word "patroness". SL93 (talk) 23:06, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Pinging Amadavadi to respond to the above comments. If they don't respond soon this can be closed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:40, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

In India, the Bahuchara Mata temple is recognized for embracing members of the Hijra community, which includes individuals who might identify as intersex, transgender, or eunuch. It's important to differentiate these terms as "Hijra" encompasses a variety of gender identities, and not all may be accurately described by the term "intersex" alone, which refers to biological attributes (Intersex).

This temple's inclusivity aligns with the ethos of neutrality and acceptance promoted in various cultural sectors of South Asia. Such practices at the Bahuchara Mata temple not only provide a spiritual haven for Hijras but also affirm the social acceptance of diverse gender identities in the region, reflecting a complex tapestry of traditional and contemporary societal norms (LGBT rights in India).

@SL93 and Sohom Datta: Does the above address your concerns? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:10, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

No. Most of the article still doesn’t match the sources. SL93 (talk) 12:12, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

No, what SL93 said, also I'm not sure where "intersex" comes from, that was not something discussed above. Sohom (talk) 12:45, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Also noting that I am ready to walk back on some of my concerns if the article can be fixed. Sohom (talk) 12:51, 9 July 2024 (UTC)