Talk:Badin Hall (University of Notre Dame)

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Keep, 15 March 2021, see discussion.
redirect to List of residence halls at the University of Notre Dame, 10 May 2013, see discussion.

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Started

started page, needs expanding Phydend 03:58, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

It is nice that all the ND dorms have articles, but I think that it is a bad precedent; some of them deserve articles, some don't. I think the non-notable ones (like this one) should be merged down to a List of Female Dorms at Notre Dame and List of Male Dorms at Notre Dame, which would of course also have links to the other articles. The list would summarize the basic info - year built, size, famous residents, who it is named after. I would advocate leaving out all the trivia - house mascot, who the rector is, the annual house party - as unnecessary for an encyclopedia. My motivation for this is that if ND has articles on its dorms, EVERY college will want dorm articles, and... does Wikipedia really want articles on "Wilson Hall (Nowhere State University)" talking about their annual weinie roast? I don't think so. The ND dorm articles were actually raised as an issue in an AFD I made on a dorm at Penn State. --Brianyoumans 19:25, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed I started many of the dorm articles for completeness (mostly when I was just starting to edit wikipedia and thought that the encyclopedia should include everything), but some of them have just become a place for people to put themselves in as famous residents, while others, for example Badin here, have only been edited one time when I started the articles. So the two proposed articles sound like a good idea, and the few notable dorms (which will have their own articles still) should be listed in them with a link to their article. Just my opinion. Phydend 00:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Excellent! I will wait a few days and see if anyone else responds. --Brianyoumans 00:53, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Separate

I would propose that Badin Hall got its own Wikipedia page instead of only being mentioned in a list. The Notre Dame residential system is peculiar in the fact that dorms are not only dormitories, but are more like residential colleges (or like the Houses from Harry Potter). Each is independent, has its own rector, history, tradition, shield, motto, colors, mascot, events, etc. Students are assigned in their dorms and rarely move out or switch, an uncommon fact among the American universities. The dorm spirit and the long lasting rivalries make the dorm at ND essential and unique institutions inside the university itself; they are notable because they are an essential part of the history and the spirit of the institution. Also, every Residence Hall has its own alumni. When the article was merged, the main reason was that some dorm were deserved a separate page and some didn't. I believe that Badin Hall does. First of all, it is in the National Register of Historic Places; it is not part of a group of buildings on the register, but it is a contributing building in its own at it has its own chapter dedicated. Here is are the listing and the original document: https://secure.in.gov/apps/dnr/shaard/r/1c9d1/N/University_of_Notre_Dame_Campus_Main_and_South_Quadrangles_St._Joseph_CO_Nom.pdf https://secure.in.gov/apps/dnr/shaard/structural_surveys.html?_flowExecutionKey=_c8211B3C1-5A12-5149-C806-D81F4036E65B_k57E94178-9E4C-CCAD-FBDF-5D309D3D8FAE . It was listed because of its special french revival architecture and its long history. This is a reason itself should make the building notable. Also, this building has a complex history: built in 1897 (it has almost 120 years), before being a dorm, it was the St. Joseph's Industrial School until 1917. Then it was converted from male to female dorm in 1972, marking the historic access of Notre Dame to women. For the problem regarding precedence for other universities, which was the main concern at the base of the merging: if any other dorm in the country can prove its long history, independent spirit and richness in traditions as Badin hall; and most of all if it is in the Register of Historic places or has some other landmark recognition, then it well deserves a independent Wikipedia page; if it doesn't, Badin Hall does nit set a precedence for it. Eccekevin (talk) 04:00, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Uncommon, but far from unique.

Are there any reliable sources, commenting, from outside the university?

"essential and unique institutions inside the university itself" suggests a need for this to be mentioned on the university page. Are any essential and unique in isolation? If yes, third party sourceable, then spin out the hall. If no, then the material belongs on a merged page of halls.

National_Register_of_Historic_Places is a primary source, doesn't add content, certainly not beyond material on the building itself. I don't see you making traction by crossing culture with architecture, these thing seem unconnected to each other. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:35, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The National Register of Historic Places does not add content, but it proves that the building is a local and national landmark, and as such is notable and deserves a separate page, and not just for it to be mentioned in the summary. In that list, there is nothing said about it, not a mention about its long history or tradition. The is also a book about this hall alone, Badin Hall 1897-1997 by Kelly Hanratty. There are plenty of sources, and even if they are close to the univesrity, they are not from the university itslef. Eccekevin (talk) 19:27, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The National Register of Historic Places confers notability to the building itself, not what goes on inside it. If there are other sources, please get them into the article itself, because in its pre-AfD-redirect state there were only sources from nd.edu, which is of course not a valid source for notability standards. Of course, notability requires only that sources exist, not be in the article, but it's infinitely better to have them cited or even in a links section in the actual article. ₆an⁶sh₆ 21:08, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

I've done a merge to List of residence halls at the University of Notre Dame.

There were several problems. There was some copyvio from the sources. The so-called official web site IMO is not a WP:RS. Most of the infobox data is already in the article, and the rest was unsourceable. The only thing left in the infobox is the picture. I removed the entire section on "signature events". Unscintillating (talk) 02:02, 23 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]