Talk:Bacone school

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Bacone College, Art Department

I am seeing sources stating that Mary Stone McLendon ("Ataloa") was the first director of the art department of Bacone College.^[1]^[2] The current version of the WP article states, Blue Eagle served as the first director of Bacone's art department from 1935 to 1939.^[3] Can we please discuss this discrepancy here. Jooojay (talk) 02:52, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Ataloa (Mary Stone McLendon)". www.okhistory.org. The Encyclopedia of Oklahoma History and Culture. Retrieved 2020-04-24.
^ Brewer, Graham Lee; Tulsa (2019-07-21). "Can Bacone College reclaim its roots as a center for Native art?". www.hcn.org. Retrieved 2020-04-24.
^ Silberman, Arthur (1978). 100 years of native American painting, March 5-April 16, 1978, the Oklahoma Museum of Art, Oklahoma City (Exhibition publication). Oklahoma Museum of Art. p. 47.

I am noticing that the Silberman publication does not show on page 47 anything about "Bacone" when it is searched in Google Books. The building for the art department at Bacone was built in 1932 (by funds raised by McLendon), and McLendon served as director from 1932 until 1935. Jooojay (talk) 03:05, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yuchitown: Can you please stop deleting after the fact and start using the talk page, esp. if you have an issue? You removed many citations today without having a discussion or supporting your changes. I understand if you don't agree, but just stating your know better (and you are clearly going against the citations), that's not cooperative (see WP:CIV, WP:HTBC). Jooojay (talk) 04:47, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First, read Wikipedia:Ownership of content. Yes, I can make edits to an article, especially when there is clearly factually incorrect and poorly worded material. I don't appreciate your wholesale reversion of my cited additions, but I'm not going to get in an edit war with you.

Second, no, Mary Stone McLendon did not found the art department nor did she ever direct it. OHS is a good source, if you reread the source, you'll see that they don't claim she served as director; they say she helped plan and raise funds, she founded Ataloa Lodge, the art museum in 1932. The museum and art department are not the same thing. "Ataloa (Mary Stone McLendon)". www.okhistory.org. The Encyclopedia of Oklahoma History and Culture. Retrieved 2020-04-24.

Acee Blue Eagle serving as the first director of the department is Native American art history 101. No person does anything at a college on their own, but he was the founding director [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6].

Likewise, Brewer never says in his High Country News article that Mary McClendon served as a director of Bacone's art department. Instead, he wrote, "ATALOA, WHO HELPED PRESIDENT Benjamin D. Weeks build Bacone’s art program in the late 1920s, believed deeply that Indigenous people should be the ones in charge of the preservation of their culture." Brewer, who is a good journalist but didn't cite sources, just pointed out she was integral to the planning (which she was) in the early stages, but the program didn't launch until 1935.

Don't know why you are pulling out Silberman especially if you don't have access to its content (I didn't cite it in my recent edits). On page 47, it reads, "In 1935, he lectured on Native American art at Oxford University, England. That year, when the Indian art department was established at Bacone College in Muskogee, Oklahoma, he became its first head, a position he held for approximately four years."

Also, it's OU not UO, which is Oklahoma 101. Yuchitown (talk) 14:35, 23 June 2020 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

References

Wondering what your investment is here since you obviously aren't familiar with Oklahoma, but it might be recuperating feminist art history (which begs the question why you deleted my mention that Edith Mahier taught the Kiowa Six's art classes). Ruthe Blalock Jones (Shawnee/Peoria) served as Bacone art director, and Janet Lamon Smith (Cherokee Nation, 1943–202) served as an interim director of the art department. It's not like women haven't played important roles in Bacone art, but please don't make stuff up. Yuchitown (talk) 14:40, 23 June 2020 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

@Yuchitown: personal attacks are not relevant and again, inappropriate behavior esp. on a talk page. Anything that was reverted are reverted because of the citation issue which I brought up already. This is not a place for original research or an art history you had many lesson years ago. History changes with research and in the 1990s, the history of the Bacone College, Art Department changed - you can read about it in books. I am happy to discuss how or why you think differently, but it has to be respectful otherwise I will move forward in having admins involved I don't have time for petty. Jooojay (talk) 17:35, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In no way, shape, or form did I make a personal attack. I added citations with my edits. I tend to cluster my edits instead of going step by step with a million edits, but can easily do that if need be. I went through the three citations you brought up; none of them say Mary Stone McLendon was a director of the art program. I furnished six sources here saying Acee Blue Eagle was the founding director. Yuchitown (talk) 22:50, 23 June 2020 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

Asking my personal intents for writing and questioning my skillset is an attack. Understanding the difference between a typo and calling it a fact, it's petty and rude, nobody on this talk page cares about your assumptions about me or about the school for that matter.

From the first citation - "This prepared the way for a new style of American Indian art, the Bacone School of traditional Indian art, or simply the Baconian style. She was the first director of the art department and bequeathed the title to Acee Blue Eagle at her departure in 1935. In later years the art lodge was renamed Ataloa Lodge Museum in honor of its founder." (https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=AT007)

The second citation is literally all about Ataloa's formation of the art department at Bacone and mentions Acee Blue Eagle's contributions to painting - and it's important to note that art departments are more than painting. Jooojay (talk) 04:23, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fantastic! So you are going to clean up this article and providing the citations you requested? Wonderful news! Yuchitown (talk) 18:09, 24 June 2020 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

I already did. Also please check out WP:RS, we don't use primary citations. Jooojay (talk) 21:52, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article still has massive problems, as indicated by the template requesting more citations and the use of "UO" for OU. Yes, I am familiar with Wikipedia's citation policy and did not enter any primary citations into the article. If you are going to revert anything I do, then you obviously are willing to clean up this article yourself. Yuchitown (talk) 10:35, 25 June 2020 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

[1] "Ataloa (Mary Stone McLendon)". www.okhistory.org. The Encyclopedia of Oklahoma History and Culture. Retrieved 2020-04-24.

[2] Brewer, Graham Lee; Tulsa (2019-07-21). "Can Bacone College reclaim its roots as a center for Native art?". www.hcn.org. Retrieved 2020-04-24.

[3] Silberman, Arthur (1978). 100 years of native American painting, March 5-April 16, 1978, the Oklahoma Museum of Art, Oklahoma City (Exhibition publication). Oklahoma Museum of Art. p. 47.

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