Talk:B-Complex
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External links modified
[edit]Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131227010655/http://www.kmag.co.uk/editorial/features/introducing-b-complex.html to http://www.kmag.co.uk/editorial/features/introducing-b-complex.html
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Edit war on Gender Identity.
[edit]There appears to be edit warring on this page around the pronouns as well as the style used for first occurrence of names.
See also: Wikipedia:Gender_identity
See also: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Gender_identity
Matúš Lenický/Matia Lenická has come out as bi-gender. I have not seen explicit evidence of them having a preferred pronoun set though they are most regularly referred to as "she/her" in interviews.
https://dennikn.sk/321936/prelomila-b-complex-muz-mato-zena-matia/ https://www.facebook.com/bcomplex/posts/10153953399843312
Wikipedia usually uses the policy of latest self-identified pronouns (MOS:GENDERID) but this is impossible outside of the use of "he/she" for a bi-gender person who identifies regularly as both genders.
I have made an edit attempting to style resolve this issue making the first occurrence of their name as both their male and female names therefore not overemphasizing either name with no regard to order of first mention. Previous versions of the article have used the term "alter ego" with regards to the persons trans identity which is a negative emphasis. I have also elected to change all pronouns to they/them since there is no explicit statement from the artist of pronouns that I can find.
Their birth name is in a box on the side so I have not changed that. I also have not removed the sentence about them going as Matia as there is poor evidence for or against.
The page has been continuously edited and subject to a sequence of reversions to keep the pronouns masculine. This is not supported by most sources which use feminine pronouns. A clear source should be provided for them using "he/him" pronouns.
This dispute should be resolved with evidence for the use of pronouns, but in lieu should be neutral as using specific pronouns for a bi-gender person is likely to be inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.40.76.3 (talk) 14:53, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
- Hmm. B-Complex's SoundCloud went from using he/him (archive link) to she/her (https://soundcloud.com/b-complex). I think the SoundCloud page would be managed by either B-Complex or someone who works with her, so I think we can consider this a self-declaration, or else pretty close to it. This booking site uses feminine pronouns too (going by Google Translate). And, as you've noted, interviews/articles seem to primarily use feminine pronouns, both in English and Slovak, like this one.
- Based on all of this, I'd lean towards using she/her. But wouldn't have a problem with using they/them instead. I would oppose using he/him.
- Incidentally, for reference, here are some quotes from a 2017 interview. Make of them what you will. Via Google Translate:
When I am a man I am Mato, when I am a woman I am Matia...I know that as a woman, I feel much more myself, happier and more open in the female gender...Slowly, I don't even have anything to dress like Mato (smile). I've never been so happy before, I didn't like suits or formal men's clothes, but I like that woman.
WanderingWanda (talk) 11:17, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
- Ok the archival and current soundcloud bio's bleing "she/her" this is clear evidence of self-identification with those pronouns. My only drive to prefer "they/them" to using female pronouns was a lack of a source which would indicate consistent self-identification, so this is satisfactory to me. The second quote is also reasonable justification for preferring Matia in the first occurrence using a "also known as" for Matius. 128.40.76.3 (talk) 14:25, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
Related to inclusions from past edits made I have made a new edit onto remove a sentence about the artist's intentions with regards to transition on two counts:
Firstly, the inclusion places undue weight on their sex which is not relevant to the a page primarily about their notability as an artist. There is due weight being placed on their gender identity which is notable, as they are outspoken about their identity and it has been the centre of a lot of their most recent media exposure.
Secondly the line was outside the scope of it's evidence, if the mention of sex is deemed to be a notable detail by another editor and restored to the page it should be rewritten to include context i,e, "...in an interview in [year] she stated that she does not intend to...", rather than "She says that does not intend to". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.40.76.3 (talk) 13:58, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Name
[edit]It's not a particularly new source but it affirms all 3 names. If there is a newer source that changes this please cite. Either way Matia was notable under Mato.Antisymmetricnoise (talk) 02:01, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Photo portrait
[edit]A number of photos have been used for this artist over the years. The one that is currently being floated is very old and is does not properly capture the artists current appearance. A more recent image was removed in the past as well due to uncertainty around GENDERID issues. If in doubt with BLP better to leave out the image. Antisymmetricnoise (talk) 22:22, 22 April 2023 (UTC)