Talk:Azerbaijan (Iran)/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

@Wikaviani:

Not sure if you have ever visited Wikiproject Azerbaijan but it also covers articles relating to Azerbaijanis, just like WP Armenia, which you mentioned. Direct quote from the first sentence of the WP AZ lead: "This project has been created to better organize information in, and improve articles related to Azerbaijan and Azerbaijani people." About your second point, I'm not arguing for AZ WP inclusion in Iran, this is an article of a region which is currently mostly inhabited by Azerbaijanis. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 16:54, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Maybe i was not clear enough, so i'm gonna say it again, there is only one historic region of Azerbaijan, the Iranian one, that was called "Atropatene" long time ago. There was no "Azerbaijan" north of Aras before 1918 and the newly created Republic of Azerbaijan took that name of "Azerbaijan", just like the historic region. Hope to have been clear enough.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 01:10, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? I'm talking about WP AZ's inclusion in the talk page of an article that is historically and currently mostly inhabited by ethnic Azerbaijanis, which WP AZ covers. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 05:55, 26 October 2020 (UTC) — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 05:55, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

WP:OR. Beshogur (talk) 06:57, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, i'm sure we're talking about the same thing, but apparently, we don't read the same books about history ... To be clear, with your rationale, one should add WP IR to the Turkish Kurdistan talk page, since Kurds are ethnic Iranians ... The Republic of Azerbaijan has nothing to do with the historic region of Iranian Azerbaijan, except its name.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 19:27, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

The thing is, I'm not arguing for WP AZ's inclusion in Iran article. I'm arguing for WP AZ's (which covers both the republic and the Azerbaijani ethnic group) inclusion in an article about a region populated mostly by Azerbaijanis. Bringing up history each time when that's not even what I'm arguing about is irrelevant. And please do better comparisons next time. WP Kurdistan is included in Iranian Kurdistan article's talk page. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 19:32, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

You are comparing apples with pears. Kurds are not Iranian, but Iranic people. Totally different thing. Claiming Azerbaijan has nothing to do with Iranian Azerbaijan is also absurd. These are two neighboring regions with the same people inhabiting the area, with historical bridges connecting the areas. Beshogur (talk) 19:40, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@Beshogur: Kurds are ethnic Iranians, i'm able to provide many sources for that, wether you like that or not does not matter. Just an example :

[1] i quote "The Kurds, an Iranian people of the Near East, live at the junction of more or less laicised Turkey, S̲h̲īʿi Iran, Arab and Sunnī ʿIrāḳ and North Syria, and Soviet Transcaucasia."

Again, the more i interact with you, the more i feel that you're not here to build an encyclopedia, since you ignore what sources say and think you can decide what is right or wrong.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 20:53, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: I said Turkish Kurdistan, not Iranian Kurdistan. WP IR is not included in the Turkish Kurdistan talk page, while, as i showed to both of you guys above, Kurds are ethnic Iranians, just like Iranian Azerbaijanis are ethnic Azerbaijanis ...---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 21:09, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@Wikaviani: Your logic is really making me confused. Kurds are an ethnic group. Iranic is the ethnic family group they belong to. Am I trying to add WP of all Turkic countries to this page? No. And, I said Iranian Kurdistan because it's more similar to our case and WP Kurdistan is there. I'm very confused as to why inclusion of a WP about ethnic Azeris is not allowed to be in the talk page of a region that's the homeland of biggest group of ethnic Azeris. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 07:16, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Ok, let me see if i got you straight.

• You said : "Iranic is the ethnic family group they belong to"

• Answer : Yes, but Kurds are iranic just like Azerbaijanis are Turkic. The word iranic means ethnic Iranian (thus, not necessarily a citizen of Iran) just like Turkic means ethnic Turk (thus, not necessarily a citizen of Turkey).

• You said : "Am I trying to add WP of all Turkic countries to this page? No. And, I said Iranian Kurdistan because it's more similar to our case and WP Kurdistan is there."

• Answer : i don't say that we should add WP of every iranic countries to Turkish Kurdistan either (like WP Afghanistan or WP Tajikistan), i said that, with your rationale, one should add WP Iran to the Turkish Kurdistan article.

• You said "I'm very confused as to why inclusion of a WP about ethnic Azeris is not allowed to be in the talk page of a region that's the homeland of biggest group of ethnic Azeris."

• Answer : Then i should be very confused too as to why the inclusion of a WP about ethnic Iranians is not allowed to be in the talk page of a region that's the homeland of the biggest group of ethnic Kurds (Turkish Kurdistan is the home of the largest group of ethnic Kurds) ...---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 08:37, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@Wikaviani:

• You said: "Yes, but Kurds are iranic just like Azerbaijanis are Turkic. The word iranic means ethnic Iranian (thus, not necessarily a citizen of Iran) just like Turkic means ethnic Turk (thus, not necessarily a citizen of Turkey)."

• Answer: Yes, this is what I'm saying. No one is saying that Iranian Azeris are Azerbaijani citizens, they are ethnic Azerbaijanis which WP AZ covers.

• You said: "i don't say that we should add WP of every iranic countries to Turkish Kurdistan either (like WP Afghanistan or WP Tajikistan), i said that, with your rationale, one should add WP Iran to the Turkish Kurdistan article."

• Answer: I have no clue how you got the idea that that was my idea. There's either an accidental or intentional miscommunication here. Let's put it this way for you to understand. I'm perfectly fine with WP Kurdistan being in Turkish Kurdistan article talk page. Just like I think it's important to include WP Azerbaijan being in Iranian Azerbaijan's article talk page. What you're saying is like me arguing for a hypothetical Turkic WP in this article. I'm not arguing for that. I'm arguing for a specific ethnic group's WP being included in an article about a region that's the homeland to the biggest amount of that ethnic group.

• You said: "Then i should be very confused too as to why the inclusion of a WP about ethnic Iranians is not allowed to be in the talk page of a region that's the homeland of the biggest group of ethnic Kurds (Turkish Kurdistan is the home of the largest group of ethnic Kurds) ..."

• Answer: Again, you're doing completely wrong comparisons. You could include WP Iran if that specific ethnicity didn't have a WP of its own, but WP Kurdistan already exists and it's already included in Turkish Kurdistan's talk page. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 08:59, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@Wikaviani:, you are messing up two terms, Iranian citizens and Iranian/Iranic peoples. WP Iran doesn't cover Iranic peoples. Beshogur (talk) 09:09, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@Beshogur and CuriousGolden: Yeah ? so how do you explain this : "Welcome to WikiProject Iran – a WikiProject set up to cooperate on all articles related to Iran and Iranians. The project covers the present and past of the Iranian cultural continent (Greater Iran or Greater Persia).". And when you click on "Iranians", you get the "Iranian peoples" page ... In short, either we keep WP AZ here, and then we add WP Iran to the Turkish Kurdistan page, or we remove WP AZ from this page.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 12:06, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Well, then you should add WP Iran to Turkish Kurdistan. Nothing wrong. I still can not see any reason removing WP Azerbaijan, and WP Armenia not, if you're right about Armenia having connections to Armenians living there. Beshogur (talk) 12:11, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Actually, it's even more legit to add WP IR to the Turkish Kurdistan page than to keep WP AZ here, because Iran is an entity that exists for thousands years in that region and successive Iranian empires controlled large parts (if not totally) of the Turkish Kurdistan region. Why Armenia should remain and Azerbaijan should not ? just because parts of Iranian Azerbaijan belonged to historic Armenia, while again, Azerbaijan is a newly created country that never included any parts of Iranian Azerbaijan.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 12:23, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Why Armenia should remain and Azerbaijan should not ? just because parts of Iranian Azerbaijan belonged to historic Armenia huh, let's include WP Turkey here too because Ottomans ruled this area as well? Beshogur (talk) 13:56, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

• "huh, let's include WP Turkey here too because Ottomans ruled this area as well?"

The Ottomans didn't have a historic impact on Iranian Azerbaijan, unlike Armenians, whose centuries/millenia old churches are still scattered all over Iranian Azerbaijan. The Ottomans just occupied the area for like 40 years during a time span of 5 centuries. They did not leave any monuments, aspects of culture, or whatsoever in the area. I could make a far better case for the inclusion of the Persian transliteration for numerous cities and regions in Turkey, such as Van, (i.e. Achaemenids, Parthians, Sasanids, Safavids, etc.), amongst others, than you possibly could for Iranian Azerbaijan.

IMO, keeping WP Azerbaijan at this article is a case of WP:TENDENTIOUS editing. WP Azerbaijan is dedicated primarily to the nation known as the Republic of Azerbaijan, which was founded in 1918/1991. Its name was taken from this Iranian region, similar to the case of Slavic Republic of Macedonia (now North Macedonia). WP Azerbaijan has no place on an article about an Iranian historic region, which predates the foundation of this 20th century republic by many millenia.

Also I just found out that WP Iran got removed[2] from Talk:Azerbaijan, even though the soil that constitutes present-day Azerbaijan Republic is intrinsically connected to Iran's history and culture for thousands of years. There are dozens of WP:RS sources, including in the article itself, which are permeated with this simple fact. If WP Azerbaijan should be added to Iranian Azerbaijan, then WP Iran should be added to almost every single city, place, and region in the Azerbaijan Republic. Gaming the system is not allowed on Wikipedia. - LouisAragon (talk) 15:23, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Fine, still can not understand how Azerbaijan isn't related to this. That covers Azerbaijanis as well. Beshogur (talk) 15:30, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

If you can't, then with all due respect, you may have a competence issue.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 17:12, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: "WP Azerbaijan is dedicated primarily to the nation known as the Republic of Azerbaijan, which was founded in 1918/1991.". This is wrong though. WP Azerbaijan covers both the republic and the ethnic group of Azerbaijanis, which includes Iranian Azerbaijanis. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 15:59, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

{{ping|Beshogur|CuriousGolden]] Ottomans Turks dominated the region for some decades after the battle of Chaldiran, but their footprint there is negligible. How can you compare millenias of Iranian domination over Turkish Kurdistan or centuries of Armenian domination over parts of Iranian Azerbaijan with 30-40 years of Ottoman rule ???---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 17:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Eldiguzids, state based in north Azerbaijan ruled over that area for 100 years, is that really what matters? And I have to state Aq Qoyunlus and Qara Qoyunlus, both were Anatolia based states at start, not Iran. But that's totally irrelevant, these things we speak are completely unnecessary. Beshogur (talk) 17:35, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

I feel like all of you are going off-track with this. I never brought up history in my arguments, I'm asking you to do the same as this discussion is not about that. WP AZ, which covers both the republic and the ethnic group of Azerbaijanis (which Iranian Azerbaijanis belong to) should be included in an article about a region that is mostly inhabited by ethnic Azerbaijanis. If you disagree with this, please reply to specifically that without bringing up when the AZ Republic was formed and et cetera. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 17:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

I disagree, since the historic background plays a big role. But i have no interest in continuing this meaningless thread with two editors who ignore 2000 years of Iranian/Armenian presence in that region, comparing it with the presence of a 102 years old country based on the fact that "Azerbaijan Republic and Iranian Azerbaijan speak the same language". This would be like Adding WP Peru, WP Chile, WP Argentina and WP Paraguay to the Bolivia article, since all these countries speak the same language ... Done here for now.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 23:30, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Again you are making meaningless comparison, now with colonised states. See Transylvania, a Romanian territory under the scope of WP Hungary. Beshogur (talk) 07:57, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure why the fact that they were originally colonized somehow makes this comparison become meaningless. Perhaps you could explain a bit more? Not really seeing the relevance of Transylvania here either, throwing random links of article talk pages is just gonna convulute this discussion even further. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:42, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

"rv nonsense."

@LouisAragon:, what's the problem with my last edits? What's nonsense here? And nice attitude. @Wikaviani:, your last dispute about WP:Azerbaijan wasn't constructive either. Also what's "last warning"? You never warned me. Except the sources and templates, "Azerbaijani" comes 56 times on this article. This is deliberately lying. South Azerbaijan is redirected here. Either we split it into two, one historic region, other political concept, or you accept this category. Can't say much about Azerbaijani language. That's supposed to be South Azerbaijani not Azerbaijani. Ready to listen both. Beshogur (talk) 00:09, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

"your last dispute about WP:Azerbaijan wasn't constructive" Well, one cannot say that your attitude in that thread was great, and i don't see how exactly i was not constructive. Throwing arround baseless accusations will not help.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 02:38, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Not sure why "South Azerbaijani" was reverted as "nonsense". It's the name of the dialect, not an irredentist name. Also, agree that it should be cleared if this article is about the historical region or the political concept. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 07:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Also claiming this is a sort of ancient region is ridiculous. Isn't that Atropatene? Beshogur (talk) 07:39, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I kinda get both parties, but this statement doesn't make much sense. It obviously is an ancient region, what do you propose? That we merge Atropatene and Adurbadagan into this article? Obviously those were different periods of the history of Azerbaijan, and are deserving of their own article. Also, what is the point of creating a discussion here if you are going to take this to two admins anyways? [3] [4]. The discussion has barely even started. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:55, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran: Those two reverts are not fair reverts. I don't think this is a nonsense, and other user denying the article's relationship with Azerbaijanis. About historical region, yes it is, but majority of the article is about current things. Beshogur (talk) 15:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree with HistoryofIran and also believe that we shouldn't go off track with this discussion as it's quite easy to forget the main point of it. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 15:48, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden:, how will other two users explain their edit. 1. How is South Azerbaijani irrelevant but Northern Azerbaijani isn't. 2. Why is the Azerbaijani irredentism category removed. As I said, either split it as a historical region and a political concept, or accept the category. Beshogur (talk) 15:50, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree with your points. I believe these 2 questions should be the main topic of this discussion and we shouldn't derail it by the earlier discussed Atropatene stuff. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 15:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

1) If "South Azerbaijani" is supposedly the proper name of the Arabic-script Azeri Turkish as used in historic Azerbaijan, a historic region in Iran, then every page containing Latin Azerbaijani used in the Republic of Azerbaijan should be changed to "North Azerbaijani", per the same rationale. If so, this should be done through a WP:RFC per WP:CON. Changing it on one Wikipedia page without edit summary is disruptive editing (i.e. WP:GAME).

2) Also, this article is about a historic region. How on earth can a political concept coined in the Soviet Union be added to this page? I guess a separate page "Southern Azerbaijan (political concept) can be made similar to "Western Azerbaijan (political concept)". - LouisAragon (talk) 21:17, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

As Wikipedia is written using reliable sources:

Bournoutian, George A. (2016). The 1820 Russian Survey of the Khanate of Shirvan: A Primary Source on the Demography and Economy of an Iranian Province prior to its Annexation by Russia. Gibb Memorial Trust.;

p. xvi

"As noted, in order to construct an Azerbaijani national history and identity based on the territorial definition of a nation, as well as to reduce the influence of Islam and Iran, the Azeri nationalists, prompted by Moscow devised an "Azeri" alphabet, which replaced the Arabo-Persian script. In the 1930s a number of Soviet historians, including the prominent Russian Orientalist, Ilya Petrushevskii, were instructed by the Kremlin to accept the totally unsubstantiated notion that the territory of the former Iranian khanates (except Yerevan, which had become Soviet Armenia) was part of an Azerbaijani nation. Petrushevskii's two important studies dealing with the South Caucasus, therefore, use the term Azerbaijan and Azerbaijani in his works on the history of the region from the sixteenth to the nineteenth centuries. Other Russian academics went even further and claimed that an Azeri nation had existed from ancient times and had continued to the present. Since all the Russian surveys and almost all nineteenth-century Russian primary sources referred to the Muslims who resided in the South Caucasus as "Tatars" and not "Azerbaijanis", Soviet historians simply substituted Azerbaijani for Tatars. Azeri historians and writers, starting in 1937, followed suit and began to view the three-thousand-year history of the region as that of Azerbaijan. The pre-Iranian, Iranian, and Arab eras were expunged. Anyone who lived in the territory of Soviet Azerbaijan was classified as Azeri; hence the great Iranian poet Nezami, who had written only in Persian, became the national poet of Azerbaijan."

p. xv;

"Although the overwhelming number of nineteenth-century Russian and Iranian, as well as present-day European historians view the Iranian province of Azarbayjan and the present-day Republic of Azerbaijan as two separate geographical and political entities, modern Azeri historians and geographers view it as a single state that has been separated into "northern" and "southern" sectors and which will be united in the future."

p. xviii;

"Since the collapse of the Soviet Union the current Azeri historians have not only continued to use the terms "northern" and "southern" Azerbaijan, but also assert that the present-day Armenian Republic was a part of northern Azerbaijan. In their fury over what they view as the "Armenian occupation" of Nagorno-Karabakh [which incidentally was an autonomous Armenian region within Soviet Azerbaijan], Azeri politicians and historians deny any historic Armenian presence in the South Caucasus and add that all Armenian architectural monuments located in the present-day Republic of Azerbaijan are not Armenian but [Caucasian] Albanian."

- LouisAragon (talk) 21:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@LouisAragon:, I don't understand your point here. That's not how Azerbaijan is spelled in Northern Azerbaijani. I suppose, it's right to change all to South Azerbaijani considering it has its own language code. For the second, why is the Azerbaijani irredentism tag nonsense? I can not separate the article right now. To be honest, don't have the materials to do right now. So it should stay here. Beshogur (talk) 07:07, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

North Azerbaijani has its own language code like South Azerbaijani. If you wish to replace all instances of Arabic-script Azerbaijani in Wikipedia articles with the template "South Azerbaijani", then every instance wherein Latin Azerbaijani is used (which tantamounts to every article of the Republic of Azerbaijan) should be swapped with a template called "North Azerbaijani". Azerbaijani irredentism which was created in the 20th century under Soviet auspices doesn't belong here. End off.;edit02:31, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

@Wikaviani:, Northern Azerbaijani does have "azj" code, but that's not the point here. Azerbaijani refers to North Azerbaijani because southern does not have any regulations. So, that is not how Azerbaijan is spelled in standart Azerbaijani. That's my point. Would you change everything about Afghanistan that's in Dari to Persian? And almost all irredentist concepts and nationalist ideas originated in 20th century, you are just deleting half of wikipedia. If this article does not have anything with the modern world, why does it have so much recent info? Perhaps we can delete all, hold the historical infos? Some people refer to Iranian Azerbaijan as South (or Southern) Azerbaijan and the Republic of Azerbaijan as Northern Azerbaijan,[9] although others believe that these terms are irredentist and politically motivated.[10][11][12], the category indeed has place here. It's a simple category. Beshogur (talk) 18:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@LouisAragon:, the problem is, some users removing North Azerbaijani transliteration from articles like Tabriz, etc. and if here has "Āzerbāyjān" as transliteration, it's better to adapt Azb code instead of Aze code. To make it clear what the difference is, or we can leave the ipo only. Beshogur (talk) 11:48, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

some problem in map

There's Zanjan state in south Azerbaijan and that isn't in map Turk.Dr (talk) 14:05, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Historical region =/= modern ultranationalist territorial claims. --Qahramani44 (talk) 22:12, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Soviet Azerbaijan is the same ethnicity

It says Soviet Azerbaijan appropriated the name in the 1920s. It should be mentioned that the Iranian Azerbaijani people are the same ethnicity as the Azerbaijani people of the North. KY-Acc (talk) 03:19, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

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Zanjan Province

Some reliable sources in their texts and maps have considered Zanjan Province (Former Wilayah of Khamseh) as part of Iranian Azerbaijan:

Map of Atropatene: Which covers the eastern lands of Ghezel Ozan River (current province of Zanjan).

The face of the Earth (977): Border of Azerbaijan is to Shemiran Castle on the border of current provinces of Zanjan and Qazvin.

The face of the Earth (977): The location of Zanjan is marked inside the map of Azerbaijan (southeastern part of the region).

Map of Iran in Afsharid Era (1747): The current county of Tarom is marked as part of Azerbaijan.

Map of Azerbaijani khanates in the 18th-19th centuries (1747): The Zanjan Khanate is marked as part of the Azerbaijani Khanates.

Map of Iran (1756): Which the Zanjan Khanate is a part of the Azerbaijani Khanates of Iran (with dark color in the northwest of the country).

Map of the Azerbaijan People's Government (1945-1946): Which covers the current province of Zanjan.

Kitāb Al-Boldān, Ibn al-Faqih (903):

And the limit of Azerbaijan from the limit of Barza’ to the limit of Zanjan...

History of the Prophets and Kings (915):

First, they should take the border from Hamedan to go out to Abhar and Zangan and finally to the Caspian Sea and in the middle, whatever the cities are, they should all be called Azerbaigan.

Muntaqila al-Talibiyya (1078):

(Sohrevard) from the land of Azerbaijan...

Muhajiran Al Abu Talib (1078):

Sohrevard: From the areas of Azerbaijan... is the name of a city near Zanjan...

The Complete History (1231):

And the last thing in which the sermon was held for Muhammad Zanjan was from the following Azerbaijan...

Tazkareh Hezar Mazar (1389):

Sajas is a village that is pleasant from the beginning, it was a small city in ancient times and it was destroyed in the Mongol dynasty and it is one of the additions of Azerbaijan.

Habib al-siyar (1524):

They prepared to leave for Azerbaijan and carried out murder and looting ceremonies in Zanjan, Ardabil and Sara[b].

Sharafnama (1597):

In the meantime, the Wilayah of Azerbaijan, which had been captured by the Ottomans, appointed the government of DovlatyarKhan to protect the border of the limits of Azerbaijan, and the area of Kershab and ZarrinKamar and Sajas and Zanjan and Surlaq and Qeydar and Shabestan and Ankuran...

Noqawat al-Athar fi Dhekr al-Akhyar (1598):

To the state and emirate of all the Mamalik al-Azerbaijan from the border of Abhar and Soltaniyeh to the farthest points of Aran...

Tadhkirat al-mulūk (1732):

Azerbaijan: Beylerbeyi of Tabriz:... Soltanieh and Zanjan.

Rostam al-tavarikh (1779):

He left for Azerbaijan. In a period of seven years... Urmia, Maragheh, Ardabil, Khoy, Tabriz... Zanjan and the borders of Talesh and... the rest of that blessed Mamlaka has been captured and occupied...

Bustān as-siyāḥa (1832):

Mention of Zanjan: The city is full of happiness from [Ajam of] Iraq, now has been considered as an addition to Azerbaijan for a long time.

Haqayeq al-Akhbar Naseri (1862):

Because during this period, the Firuzi Kovkab Homayun Kovkab [Naser al-Din Shah Qajar] visited the area of [Ajam of] Iraq and Khamseh of Azerbaijan...

Turkmen War (1876):

The story is about the life of a person named Gholam Hossein, who was born in a village in the Khamseh of Azerbaijan.

Merat al-Boldan (1877):

From Ardabil to Zanjan is five houses and to Khoy, which is the final city of Azerbaijan, is twenty-seven farsakhs.

Afzal al-Tavarikh (1899):

The other mamlaka of Iran is "Azerbaijan", which Europeans writhe it "Atropatene". It is a vast mamlaka and has big cities. From Tehran and Qazvin, the Khamseh land is the beginning of the land of Azerbaijan, which leads to the Aras River.

Dehkhoda Dictionary (1931):

Zanjan: It is a city to Azerbaijan. The ruling city of Khamseh Wilayah... In the books of geographers, this city was sometimes considered as a region from Deylam, sometimes as part of Jibal, sometimes as part of Azerbaijan, and sometimes as part of Rey.

Sharh Zendegani Man (1945):

After the formation of Ahmad Ghavam's cabinet, and the departure of the Russian army from Iran... Although this autonomy in the agreements and resolutions of the government limited to the third and fourth provinces and in no way did it include Khamseh Wilayah, which is part of the first province, the democratic government of Tabriz did not want to give up take this wilayah, and withdraw its sacrifices from Zanjan and other parts of this wilayah.

Tabaghat Aa'lam Al-Shia (1954):

Al-Abhari Al-Isfahani: Relating to Abhar affiliated with Isfahan... And it is different from Abhar in Azerbaijan.

History of Iran from ancient times to the present (1980):

Mohammad Khayabani and his supporters resolutely fought against the 1919 agreement... they declared Azerbaijan of Iran autonomous, within the framework of Iran... After the April uprising in Tabriz, the power of the Democrats extended to Urmia, Khoy, Ardabil, Maragheh, Salmas, Zanjan and Azerbaijan was declared as "Azadistan"... Teaching in Azerbaijani schools was conducted in the Azerbaijani language. In Tabriz, Urmia and Zanjan alone, 325 primary schools and 82 new high schools were opened.

Gitashenasi Geographical and cartographic Publication (1983):

Khamseh: Former wilayah of Iran, in the south of Azerbaijan and west of Iran. Its center was Zanjan and one of its famous cities was Soltaniyeh. The 5 main blocks (Khamseh means five) that made up Khamseh Wilayah were: 1. AbaharRud 2. KharRud [Khodabandeh] 3. ZanjanRud 4. IjRud 5. SajasRud.

Encyclopedia of the World of Islam (2001):

Beylerbeyi of Azerbaijan included 26 rulers, including Astara, Maragheh... Soltaniyeh and Zanjan.

Relations between Iran and the Republic of Azerbaijan (2005):

And cities such as Tabriz, Ardabil and Zanjan have been considered as cities of Azerbaijan.

History of Shiism in Azerbaijan (2006):

He opened one of the castles of "Abhar" and made peace with them on conditions, and this was the first time that Muslims entered Azerbaijan.

Calendar of Contemporary History of Iran (2006):

Order to pursue the republicanism as strongly as possible to the military commanders of Azerbaijan: In a letter to the ten commanders of the military districts of Meshkin, Ardabil, Marand, Khoy, Maragheh, Salas (Urmia, Salmas, Solduz), Savojbolagh, Zanjan, Maku and Ahar... The British sources present in Azerbaijan believed that "the majority of the Azerbaijani people are opposed to the idea of a republic in Iran."

THE CAUCASUS: an introduction (2009):

Azerbaijan: The region covering the northern provinces of Iran: East Azerbaijan, West Azerbaijan, Ardabil and Zanjan.

• Note This users proposal was already rejected in a commons discussion, as his addition is full of WP:OR, non-WP:RS and even texts taken out of context. Moreover, this user heavily lacks in WP:CIR, as he does not speak English and thus solely relies on Google Translate, making it much harder to have a proper discussion with him. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:58, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 16 October 2022

2607:FA49:2842:2900:21B7:3527:F4E9:9C0E (talk) 00:26, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

The study found that the Azerbaijanis of Iran do not have a similar FSt and other genetic markers found in Anatolian and European Turks. However, the genetic Fst and other genetic traits like MRca and mtDNA of Iranian Azeris were identical to Persians in Iran.(reference: https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/a/Azerbaijani_people.htm#:~:text=The%20study%20found%20that%20the,identical%20to%20Persians%20in%20Iran.)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —Sirdog (talk) 08:13, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Wrong flag displayed in this page

The flag displayed at the top of the page does not represent all Azerbaijanis. It is only the flag of the "country" of Azerbaijan which does not belong to Azeri people of Iran. Samythekid (talk) 15:12, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

@Samythekid: Well, I had reverted[5] the addition of the flag to the template (it was added by an IP). But user Helius Olympian reinstated it.[6] I agree it doesn't look WP:NPOV this way, if the template is supposed to remain on this page. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:30, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Dear LouisAragon, so what is the solution? The displayed flag belongs to country of Azerbaijan and not to Iranian Azeri people. The only flag representing Iranian people (whether they are Azeri or not) is the flag of Iran. Samythekid (talk) 11:07, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

And you decide it? Beshogur (talk) 17:13, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

@Beshogur: This page is about a historical region in Iran, yet it displays the flag of a different country that was founded in 1918/1991. Its frankly ridiculous. While I disagree with user:Samythekid's "trust me bro"-ish claim, the question raised here is legitimate. - LouisAragon (talk) 16:58, 3 February 2023 (UTC)