Talk:Aw (father)

Additions

Hello Magherbin. I would like to add on the first sentence "and in the Somali language." I will add a source next to it to show it's also a respected title used in the Somali language and I will put another source next to "It commonly designates a father, respected elder or saint." to show it's also similarily used by Somalis for elders and saints. Thank you. Ayaltimo 03:48, 05 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm still in a dispute with the other user, I suggest you wait for that to be over. They're the ones that added this in and removed the redirects on the other articles. Its similarly used because it was taken directly from Harari language. The source are clear on that, the usage is due to the ties to Harar. What about this since you're involved in this dispute now, you add the redirects to prefix on the awbube and awbare articles then make bold edits here. MustafaO agreed to it anyway. I undid my revision hence ill check back in a couple days if the articles are still directing to somali aristocratic subsection then i'm removing the content here as there's two redirects. Thanks. btw I have not checked the references added by the user, you stated you have your own references feel free to add. Magherbin (talk)

I'm not involved with your dispute with MustafaO. Please don't involve me with your personal matters. I was already planning to make bold edits until I saw you in an edit warfare that's why I came here. "is an honorific title in the Harari" we both know it's also used in the Somali language that's why I wanted to add an addition. There was no mention of origin and if you learn the Somali language aw is a short word for "Awoowe" and Ay is a short word for "Ayeeyo" but sure I can redirect it to this article. Ayaltimo 08:27, 05 August 2022 (UTC)

The terms you brought up refers to parents. Most commonly used term for mother is hoyo not aye in Somali. What you referred to as long form is possession "my father" "my mother". Ofcourse with the regions interconnection several loanwords from different languages are used. Magherbin (talk) 07:46, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Aw also means father and Ay means mother in Af-Maay and several other archaic Sam-Langauge and dialects. You can look up lexical data on them and that's what it shows.

Some interesting observation by researchers: [1]

In fact, titles preceding names are perceived by most Somalis to be an affectation. Luling, in her studies of the more settled Geledi Somalis noted that they used the word 'Aw (literally, father) for Mr and the word Ai (literally, mother) for Mrs...

In both the North and South they extend it as an addage to saints and religious figures to show respect because they become figurative mothers/fathers and are later held as ancestors. I would say for neutrality sake put it as "according" and mention the writer's name. Ayaltimo 09:02, 05 August 2022 (UTC)

I've met a few Maay speakers, they state their language/identity were suppressed hence distinct from Somali proper. What exactly is a half caste mentioned in the reference? Whats their origin? Looking for references on that. Magherbin (talk) 08:10, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Rahanweyn dialect is mutually intelligible with other Somalis in the south but in the north. The northern dialect suppressed all dialects, not just Af-Maay speakers and was promoted as the standard Somali dialect used in entertainments such as media and music. Southern Somalis referred their slaves as habesh partically Oromos (Gallas) [2] but yes, even myself I don't know why they called them "Aw". Could be freed slaves who became teachers? Who knows. Ayaltimo 09:21, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Hello Ayaltimo, yes I had a discussion, allbeit a heated one, with Magherbin yesterday and we agreed to add the redirects to the Awbare and Awbube pages. I saw your edits and the redirect links so thanks for that. I will just fix the spelling on this page to reflect the discussions me and Magherbin had yesterday. The Wikipedia technical team reverted to the original. I am currently in no dispute with Magherbin as our discussion was resolved yesterday or last evening in the Awbare talk pages. MustafaO (talk) 09:04, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Origins

@Magherbin We appreciate your contributions, but in one of your recent edits, it appears that you have added original research, which is against Wikipedia's policies. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and personal experiences—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. As doesn't mention an Harari origin for the word Aw as you claimed. Thank you. Alan walker9 (talk) 21:23, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Its a Harari title according to the reference by "The Proceedings of the First International Congress of Somali Studies" [3]. The statement in the article does not state its of Harari origin neither does the Giorgio Banti reference which only states Somali clans adopted it from Harari language, refer to p.8 [4]. Here's the quote "Still now several Somali clans use for their traditional chiefs Har. titles such as garaad and malaaq, and the Har. word aw 'father' as a religious title". The usage of "Har" refers to Harari language, see footnotes [5]. Magherbin (talk) 07:20, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

References