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The main content of this article is almost entirely a copy of the notable figures by Automotive Hall of Fame. It might be substantial copy against fair use of United States copyright law. The entire list is available at automotivehalloffame.org. Any thoughts? --Worldwidewaffle (talk) 15:54, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this version, dating back to edits made by Ddensel on 7 Dec 2010, in the introductory section, Visit, History, and introductory language in the sections Hall of Fame inductees, Industry Leader of the Year, and Distinguished Service Citation Award, is substantially in violation of fair use. Until this point it had been both informative, neutral, and cited properly. I would hate to see this page go away, but unless someone wants to undergo the exhaustive rewrite this page now requires to meet neutral tone and fair use requirements, I see no choice but to insert the speedy deletion template. Unfortunately since the editor did not create a User page I can't advise him/her with the Author notification. --LiteratPJ (talk) 04:52, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely all copyright violations. I've cut this down to just a tiny little stub. I'm not even certain this museum is notable--we need independent, reliable sources verifying that it is, or the article should be deleted; I'm not up to looking for them myself, but may be in the future. In the mean time, it would help if others could show how this museum is notable, and add sourced information. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:29, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You folks could actually use the tools that are available. When somebody puts on a "Notability" template it includes links to "News" "Jstor" etc. If you had wanted to take the time you would see a multiplicity of sources. See Old version with the Notability Banner on it. You can build and research or you can carp and tear down. But these behavior patterns are lazy, unhelpful and mutually exclusive as a general rule. This is equally true of WP:PROD, which should always be preceded by WP:Before. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:33, 5 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Columns, etc.

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I think that a single undifferentiated column of honorees looks like hell. Not user friendly and not good looking on a proper computer screen. IMO, A single lined list of over 800 names (potentially) is bad formatting. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:29, 7 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Concern about citations

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Many of the citations to the AHoF's inductee profiles appear to listing the year said person was inducted in place of the year that the web pages were actually published. Since the World Wide Web wasn't invented until the early 1990s, we should never really see a publication year of 1969 for a web-only source. Now, if a website is republishing an older source, that's different, but I do no think that is the case here.

Louis Chevrolet may have been inducted in 1969, but there is no indication that his profile page was written in 1969, so the year should be stripped. In fact, since there is no indication at all of when that profile was written, the best practice would be to use |date=n.d. to explicitly indicate that it has no date of publication. In that case, an access date is of paramount importance. This, and every other example, needs to be fixed lest we give our readers false information about our sources. Imzadi 1979 → 13:17, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:Imzadi1979, of course you are right. These are the dates they were inducted. Presumably the information was created then. I think the variance is inconsequential, but obviously you disagree.
I would say that elimination of the date of induction creates its own set of problems and lack of information. Indeed, the linked AFH pages do not themselves list the date of induction, which has a difference source at their website. We could add citations to that page, too, but that seems like a lot of clutter. Maybe you have a suggestion on curing that?
Parenthetically, please resist the temptation to mess with the naming of the citations. The "AHF" with a name is meant to be a unique identifier of the citation and is useful when they are put into other articles.
But I concede your point, which is well taken. I will implement it in future edits.
And you can fix the existing citations. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:21, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If necessary, 7&6=thirteen, you need multiple citations to establish multiple pieces of information if they aren't all listed in a single place. That's just a fact of citations. There's nothing wrong with dropping a few footnotes at the end of an entry in the list, but I'd try to keep it to just two, maybe three. If necessary, we can WP:CITEBUNDLE multiple citations about a single person into a single footnote and use that with a repeated footnote for the year.
As of the moment, we don't have the years of induction directly listed at all. So an option would be to list them similar to:
  • Louis Chervolet[1] (1969[2])
  • Louis Chervolet,[1] 1969[2]
or if there is a single source for all years of induction, a note at the above the list such as "Years of induction below supplied by the hall of fame except where otherwise noted.{3]
How does that work? Imzadi 1979 → 14:23, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Good suggestions all. I agree with your approach, but I guess we should choose one. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:33, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I added Note A, ref group upper alpha, which begins to address the year of induction citation problem. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:35, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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