Talk:Austria–Romania relations

Why I keep editing the sections

@Rahal Danner

I would like to clarify why I keep editing some sections of the page. In my last attempt I reformulated them, but I still have some doubts.

I, like you, am also new to this so I might have made some mistakes. Feel free to point them out to me and discuss them.

Let's take it step by step:

Romanian Discrimination In Austria

Romanian minority used to be, since the Habsburg Empire and Austria-Hungary, discriminated by the rule of the empires.

This needs a citation. I also know this to be partly true, but don't have a lot of knowledge on the topic. More proof would be useful here.

However, between Romanians, there were also Romani people, a different ethnical group, which are always seen as people who beg, rob, pickpocket, stink, are disrespectful and lazy. In 2015, the Romani people were seen in Vienna eating the geese from the lake, horrifying the locals. After that, the Austrian government seen Romanians as Romani people, by the common confusion with the names between Romanian and Romani.

I don't agree with the way this paragraph is written. First of all, it doesn't matter what ethnicity the people in question have. As long as they are citizens of Romania and have a Romanian ID, they are all Romanians, with the same rights and laws. By reading this, I get the impression that Romani are the only ones guilty for bringing negative image to Romania, while the rest of Romanians are innocent, helpless victims. I find this approach wrong and quite racist. We are neither innocent, nor victims. It is our duty as a country to take responsibility for the crimes committed by our citizens, and try to prevent them. While of course it's impossible to completely prevent all crimes, we can try to reduce them by better education and integration. Trying to say "Romani are not Romanians" is only contributing to our image of racists.

The payments were unequal, education discrimination was common and the Austrian government refused to pay allowances to the Romanian children settled in Austria.

Also needs citation. It might be true, but I find it hard to believe that a few isolated incidents have caused the government of Austria to discriminate Romanians so severely.

Since 2010, Romanian government put in plan of taking all the Romanian citizenship from Romani people, making them seek for the one of the Roma Community or the country they are settled it so that the confusion between Romanian and Romani would not occur anymore.

I am not sure where this one is taken from, but this is not true at all. There is no law which rejects the citizenship of an ethnic minority in Romania, in order to "avoid confusion". I am not aware of any "plan" or law that achieves this. Of course, the Romanian citizenship, like that of any other democratic country, can be withdrawn under certain conditions. But that law applies to all Romanian citizens, regardless of ethnicity.

But in that case the law should already be published in "Monitorul Oficial", therefore it must be added as a reference to this paragraph. Christruth (talk) 20:50, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I understand your point and asks. I am here to correct some questions from you. The problem with Romani people is that they don’t want to be Romanians, they want to be seen as a separate group of people, Roma or Romani, not Romanian, but they also carry the citizenship in countries they settle, and by doing crimes, the police sees “Romanian” and of course that they think they are Romanians. So, the government put in plan to take their citizenship, making them apply for the country they stay in, so that the confusion cannot be done. About the payments, this is very very common for Eastern European immigrants that went to the west for work. Countries like Netherlands, UK, Germany, Austria, give a lower payment than regular pure citizen ones. This is done due to either the big number of people that come from the same country, taking jobs and making the government unable to pay all of them with the same wages. Second one is that the government just dislikes the people from that country. For example in the country I live in, the Netherlands, a propaganda was supported by the government of holding a campaign that were targeting Romanians, Poles, Bulgarians that “steal” others jobs or “annoy” other people, and of course, cutting their salaries cause there were too many working for the same company. Instead of doing that they could just put them in more posts, such as city mantainence or other middle class jobs, so that they can pay them separately, not on the same company. And the discrimination of Romanians during Habsburg Empire was kinda the reason why Romania declared war on them. The Romanian minority, which was 8M, was suffering unequal rights, miserable conditions than others and unfair treatments of their culture. These caused to the Massacres Of Transylvania, then the Uprising in Austria-Hungary and later on to the trigger of the Romanian-Austrian War in 1916 Rahal Danner (talk) 12:56, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

@Rahal Danner

The problem with Romani people is that they don’t want to be Romanians, they want to be seen as a separate group of people, Roma or Romani, not Romanian

This does not represent the opinion of the majority of ethnic Romani people in Romania. I know some who are very well integrated and would never want to be a separate group. They want their culture to be respected and promoted in a positive image, and to not be discriminated.

As an example, in the same way, there have been Romanians who wanted Transylvania to become independent from the rest of the country (recently, and they even went as far as to send a petition to the President). That doesn’t mean it would happen, or should happen. In a democracy, everybody is free to have an opinion.

Lots of countries consist of people of multiple ethnicities. The solution to combat these ethnic conflicts is to push for better integration and provide proper education, instead of setting people against one another.

but they also carry the citizenship in countries they settle, and by doing crimes, the police sees “Romanian” and of course that they think they are Romanians

Because they are indeed Romanians. Ethnicity and nationality are two different things. If an ethnic Saxon from Sibiu commits a crime in Austria, he is still a Romanian criminal.

And speaking of Romani, they are present in lots of countries in Europe. In some they are all very well integrated and respected, because efforts were made at the right time.

In the end, each country is responsible for its own citizens, no matter the ethnicity.

So, the government put in plan to take their citizenship, making them apply for the country they stay in, so that the confusion cannot be done

I am very curious to know who stated this publicly, or what this “plan” is about, as I have never heard of such a thing. It sounds very undemocratic and I doubt a law like this would pass.

There is no “confusion”. We, as a whole (the Romanian state and all its people) are the only ones guilty. The state for not doing enough to educate and integrate the minorities. The people for having discriminatory and racist attitudes toward one another.

For example in the country I live in, the Netherlands, a propaganda was supported by the government of holding a campaign that were targeting Romanians, Poles, Bulgarians that “steal” others jobs or “annoy” other people

While this might be true, please make sure not to mix up the government of a country, with an extremist party that happens to have some seats in the Parliament. The same situation happens in Romania, where the AUR party promotes racism, xenophobia, anti-EU sentiment and pro-Russian propaganda. They have some seats in the Parliament, but are not in the government (and hopefully will never be) therefore they do not represent the opinion of the majority of Romania.

I am not saying it is the same situation in the Netherlands, but make sure to check before making such a statement. Christruth (talk) 20:15, 16 August 2023 (UTC)