Talk:Augusta, Georgia/Archive 1

Archive 1

Who is editing this article?

Tee center a 15,000 seat arena? It's a convention center.. not an arena. Imax theater? Where did that come from? Telfair Station? Racetrack seating 30,000 people? These are all figments of someone's imagination, not facts. There are no concrete plans for an Imax theater, Arena, or racetrack, or something called Telfair station. The citation provided for this was a news story about a duo that makes paper mache models of their "visions" of Augusta's future. These are not actual projects being constructed or even planned by city leaders. This article is riddled with misinformation and inaccuracies. No wonder is was demoted from the good article list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquatraveller (talk • contribs) 18:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I can shed some light on this. A local man by the name of William Morris who owns a large nation-wide media conglomerate has wanted these projects to go up for years with the city paying the bill for his construction company. It's very controversial and considering he owns two of the largest media outlets in town, he's been very able to convince many people it's a reality and a good idea (both subjects are up for debate). It doesn't surprise me in the least that he would have either devoted followers or possibly even paid employees editing wikipedia as part of a larger move to convince Augustans of the validity of his plans. Of course as a former employee and self-proclaimed arch enemy of William Morris, you should take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. In fact, go ahead and stick a big fat "citation needed" on my comments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.47.87.25 (talk) 16:54, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

TEE Center

This article mistakenly refers to The TEE Center, as 15,000 seat arena. The TEE Center is instead a trade and Exhibit Center, and will in no way be configured as a sports arena. Can you please cite a reputable reference that says that The TEE Center will be an arena? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.55.39.189 (talk) 16:40, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Political Machines

Not all of the Augusta political machines are associated with The Democratic Party. The Southside Mafia, which was powerful in county politics for much of the latter half of the 20th century was a non-partisan political machine. The Cracker Party was a machine that had its origins in The Democratic Party... it was a populist movement that broke off from the Democratic Party.. and controlled city politics by dominating The White only primaries at the time. If you wish to have this article to regain its GA status... you should want to have the facts correct. Saying that all of the political machines are Democratic is simply incorrect and shows political bias.

Chamber of Commerce Page

It appears the local Augusta Chamber of Commerce and COnvention and Visitors bureau has started editing this page and deleting content that has been on here from day one. This is supposed to be wikipedia.. not a propoganda article for the chamber of commerce and convention and visitors bureau.

I agree. This same idiot keeps putting it back up. THis page needs to be reverted back to its status from 2 weeks ago. The recent changes are not encyclopedic but rather propogandic. That paragraph about contacting the convention and visitors bureau is ridiculous. There is already a link at the bottom of the page for the convention and visitors bureau. This has turned into purely an advertisement. A lot of this new material belongs on the website of the Augusta convention and visitors bureau... not wikipedia. These ppl who keep putting it back on should be banned from editing this page.

Removed the advertisement paragraph for the convention and visitors bureau... ppl can be directed to their website by the link at the bottom of the page. A City entry for wikipedia should not be a tourist propoganda entry by the local CVB. Please stop putting this on this page. Aquatraveller 02:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Lists and Links

wp:not Wikipedia is not a directory, guidebook, or list of stuff. The recent edits to add innumerable external links to "major attractions" and guidance to call the visitor's bureau if you're visiting, etc. seem completely out of place. If it doesn't get pared down by the authors I'm going to revert almost everything from the last couple of days unless there's support here for that material. HDow 16:20, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Right on. Someone named Dreadstar keeps putting this crap back on the page.

Skyline Photos

Certainly there is a better photo of downtown Augusta than the main one on this page? Those decrepit looking high rises, especially the one with that glass toaster like structure on top, are not very attractive. The photo near the botom of the page showing the skyline and river with the marina is much nicer. I suggest using it for the main image.

• While I don't have any photos of the skyline (partly because that's hard to do considering that there's nothing but private homes on the other side of the river) I do have lots and lots of photos of Augusta on my website so I linked that up. If wikipedia wants to use them, feel free.--68.47.87.25 (talk) 17:06, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Women in Hats?

Whats with that picture of women in hats at rubens? I have never heard of these women in hats and I can find no mention of them anywhere on the internet and I am skeptical of the claim that they are "famous" and thus propose that the picture be removed. Surely there is something in Augusta more worthy of having a picture on the page that some crummy looking manequins in a dingy storefron on Broad Street.

Well you obviously must not be a native of Augusta. Everyone knows Rubens Dept Store and the "Women in Hats." Indeed the store and it's display fall into the category of being a local oddity, but I think they are worth mentioning.

Provide a citation then. If generic mannequins in generic hats in a generic storefront qualify as a "local oddity", then every town in America has a local oddity just as odd. If it qualifies as "notable" then find a mention of it somewhere on this vast internet, or at least in the Augusta Chronicle. A quick poll of three of my fellow *native* Augustans reveals that none of them have heard of the "Women in Hats", and one of them has taught history for over 20 years. One of them had heard that Rubens sells hats tho. ;) -- GIR 02:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Rambot

I added the missing Rambot information, I used Richmond County, Georgia as a basis. In the mid-90s Richmond County and Augusta consolidated their governments and the city annexed the county. I am speculating that no census information was available for the city. In the same way there is no Rambot information available for Athens, Georgia. It too was consolidated with its' county.

Metro Name

If you ask most people in Augusta what counties are in The CSRA.. they couldn't tell you. The CSRA is not a metropolitan statistical area. It is not used by The census bureau or the OMB for statistical purposes.

The article calls it the "Augusta-Aiken Metropolitan Area", but as a former resident of that area, we call it the "Central Savannah River Area". Harvestdancer 18:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I added info about the CSRA, which is only made up of counties in Georgia. The Augusta-Aiken Metropolitan Area includes parts of South Carolina. --FuriousFreddy 10:34, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Since when is the CSRA only made up of just counties in Georgia? Have you even been to Augusta? I just performed an informal poll of my fellow Augustans, asking the question "What would you consider the CSRA to be made up of?" and not one of them excluded areas in South Carolina. Ironically I am watching News Channel 12 just tonight and they mentioned that Radio Shack is closing "three stores in the CSRA, one in Evans, one in Martinez, and one in Aiken." -- GIR 03:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

For your information, I was born and raised in Augusta. I know Augusta folks colloquially refer to the entire Augusta/North Augusta/Aiken area as "the CSRA", but the CSRA official website, at http://www.csrardc.org, specifically states that the CSRA is "a 13 county and 41 city region in the eastern portion of Central Georgia". As an encyclopedia, we should be dealing in facts, not informal opinion. --FuriousFreddy 03:28, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I am interested about the origin of the phrase "CSRA", you keep using the term CSRA and CSRA RDC as interchangable terms, I mean the quote that you mention in it's entirety is "The CSRA RDC is a public sector, non-profit planning and development agency that serves a 13 county and 41 city region in the eastern portion of Central Georgia." If the CSRA RDC does not refer to itself as simply the "CSRA" as you seem to imply that they do, then why should Wikipedia insist that the only proper usage of the term "CSRA" is in reference to some beauracratic entity that most people in the CSRA (on both sides of the river) have never heard of. If we are going to have an article about the CSRA RDC I think it should be in a seperate article by itself apart from an article about the CSRA. I think it is reasonable to recognize the FACT that a vast majority of Augustans consider the CSRA to be an area that encompasses areas in Georgia and in South Carolina. There are examples on wikipedia that concern subjects similar to this, for example the entry on Upstate New York is one. A search on google for "CSRA Augusta" yields dozens of results, but you'll have too look far down the list, number 110 or so, in fact, to find the link to the CSRA RDC. Many other organizations that use the name "CSRA" rank much higher, The CSRA Linux User's Group (ranked 1st), The CSRA Shag Club (which has meetings in Augusta, North Augusta, and Aiken) and the CSRA Heat Olympic Volleyball Club rank much higher. I would water that the vast majority of those clubs and organizations bestowed the CSRA moniker on themselves not because they just happened to fall within the beauracratic boundries of the CSRA RDC, but rather because they live in the Augusta area, and as all Augustans know, that is what you call the Augusta area, including those vast areas that happen to be on the northern side of the River. While I can accept that perhaps the CSRA RDC was the organization that coined the term "Central Savannah River Area", I can't accept that wikipedia would try to pass off as fact that the only way such a term can be used is in reference to that organization. That is not only misleading, it is simply not factual. If that organization *did* coin the term, I would request that you please cite some source that proves that. -- GIR 03:59, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Our article on the Central Savannah River Site does already mention that some cities and counties in South Carolina consider themselves part of the CSRA. Perhaps we can revise it to say that the CSRA is considered essentially the same as the Augusta-Aiken Metroploitan Area (which is how people in Augusta, Aiken, etc. treat the terms)...but we need a reliable source for that. --FuriousFreddy 05:05, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

The article does mention that "some cities and counties in South Carolina consider themselves part of the CSRA". I think that POV is a bit skewed in that, as I'm sure you would recognize, more than just those cities and counties consider themselves part of the CSRA, rather the vast majority of the denizens of the CSRA consider those cities and counties in South Carolina to be part of the CSRA. What would you consider a "reliable source" that the CSRA is considered the Augusta area as a whole? I don't think it would be difficult to find some sources that mention the CSRA containing areas such as North Augusta and Aiken, as I noted earlier, I heard the CSRA refered to on Channel 12 as including Aiken and North Augusta. Either way, I propose that an article about the CSRA RDC be a seperate article. I for one haven't seen any evidence that the CSRA RDC: 1. coined the phrase "Central Savannah River Area", 2. has sole domain over the defenition of the location of the CSRA, 3. is the most notable organization that uses the name CSRA. Even if any of those is shown to be, I still don't see why in the long run the CSRA RDC should warrant more than a footnote in a short article about the CSRA.

My main contention would be this: Those who desire to find out what the "CSRA" *is* are going to find the information that the CSRA is a colloquial term refering to the Greater Augusta area as a whole, as opposed to a beaurcratic area defined by an an organization that most people in Augusta probablly have never heard of will most likely find the former, as opposed to the latter, more useful and, more importantly, more relevant to whatever would cause someone to inquire about the Central Savannah River Area. -- GIR 07:17, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

FOLKS-- This debate is really beside the point. Any Augusta metro area discussed in this article should be the Augusta-Aiken (GA-SC) metropolitan area defined by the US Census Bureau and the Office of Budget Management. All U.S. metro areas are defined by these two agencies. The Census Bureau/OBM definition (and population) is the one that appears in encyclopedias and almanachs, and Wikipedia is no exception.

There is no reason that colloquial and poorly defined geographical areas should be omited from articles like this. The fact of the matter is, is that most people in the CSRA refer to the CSRA as the "CSRA". I'm not saying that the article should use the term CSRA in lieu of the 'official' designation of "Augusta-Aiken metropolitan area". But the article should not omit the usage of "CSRA" completely just because there is a more "official" designation. Doing so results in an incomplete article, and it does no service to anyone wanting accurate and notable information on the city of Augusta. Shall we erase all mention of The "Bay Area" in favor of the more sanitary and more accurate "San Francisco Bay Area"? Shall we delete the article on Upstate New York all together since no one's is even quite sure where it is? -- GIR 03:22, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Former GA

Clearly no references, and article is mostly lists. Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 05:10, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

The Masters

The first golf tournament of the season? Augusta's most famous golf course? Try the most famous golf tournament in the world! And to add to the National, of course it's the most famous golf course! You have to be elected to be a member! Hey, I'm proud of my hometown! Augustans, show some PRIDE!!! E_B_A]]]]]] The Masters is only ONE of the Four MAJOR Golf Tournaments of the year.It is the first MAJOR. There is no "Super Bowl of Golf." Each Major has equal importance. Saying that The Masters is the most prestigious of the majors is an opinion not a fact. Btw the Royal and Ancient in St. Andrews, Scotland has much more history behind it than Augusta National.. and it can be argued that other courses equal or surpass the beauty of Augusta National.. such as Pebble Beach..

Not a good article?

== Test question: Does anyone remember that blue textbook on Augusta History? You know the one that we had to study in elementary and then again in high school? If you remember it (along with the quarter system) there shouldn't be a problem in keeping this Wiki to standards. Apart from the racial politics, and a certain political loud mouth who should stay in Atlanta, I love my native city dearly and promote it online. I can help to edit this Wiki to standards, but being a product of the RCBE school system, don't shoot me for flunking English grammar. :p Jokes aside, what is needed to get this Wiki to standards (that Wikipedian didn't leave a comment)? Seen worse with A ratings.FResearcher 02:48, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

New content

Since this is my first massive massive edit, I didn't want to change everything on the Augusta wiki and say, "it's done!" afterwards. So I edited the content and added it on my talk page for community review. Would some kind editors and GA wiki contributors come over and critique the example? Included on the top of the page is the reasoning behind the structure, along with other factoids. Please help. Thanks! --FResearcher 00:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC) ==''''''''''

Disgusta

"Disgusta" is just as much a legitimate nickname for Augusta than any of the others. In fact more people are aware of Augusta being known as "Disgusta" than "The Garden City." Go just about anywhere in the Southeast region and mention you are from Augusta and the next thing you will hear from people is "Oh, Disgusta."

If you are to include valid "nicknames" of Augusta.. then "Disgusta" ought to be included, as it is as widely used if not moreso than "The Garden City". THis does not qualify as vandalism. used if not moreso than "The Garden City". THis does not qualify as vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.55.39.189 (talk • contribs) 17:26, 1 August 2007

Please provide reliable sources for this nickname. If it is to be included in such a prominent location as the infobox, you must present sources indicating that this is a notable nickname. Also please sign your comments on talk pages by adding four tildes ~~~~ at the end of your post. – Dreadstar † 21:37, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

This recently appeared in the city's main newspaper referencing the Augusta's most common nickname:

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/072907/met_137554.shtml I simple Google search will reveal that "Disgusta" is as common a nickname for Augusta as any of the others listed in "The Box".. And while you're busy deleting stuff from the Augusta page.. how about deleting the recent additions from someone at The chamber of Commerce and Conventions andf vistors bureau that reads more like advertising than a wikipedia entry..—Preceding unsigned comment added by aquatraveller (talk • contribs) 18:50, 1 August 2007

I cannot view that link, it requires a login. Your credibility has been damaged by this edit. – Dreadstar † 22:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I live in Augusta, GA and I can tell you for a fact that Disgusta is a legitimate nickname known by nearly all of the population. The link is to the Augusta Chronicle... they, like many newspapers online require a login to view articles which can be done in about 2 minutes. So does The Atlanta Journal Constitution.. so do links do their articles qualify as "Not credible"? You are obviously not from Augusta and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I find it interesting that someone who is not from Augusta can self-appoint thenselves an expert on things in Augusta. Outrageous. PPL like you should be banned from wikipedia.—Preceding unsigned comment added by aquatraveller (talk • contribs) 18:58, 1 August 2007

More links for "Disgusta" validation: [1], [2], . cyburbia . org/forums/showpost.php?s=596fb63a0b92f620d2200899d92f0453&p=293513&postcount=102, [3], [4]

[editor: broke up url to cyburbia to let archive get past WP's spam blocker]

You may want to review WP:RS and its related articles; the sources you present are not reliable sources according to Wikipedia policy: WP:Verifiability Questionable sources. I also suggest you read thorugh Wikipedia:Talk page which has more information on how to format talk page comments. – Dreadstar † 00:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

One of the sources is from the Augusta Chronicle.. the local newspaper. I don't see citations for the other nicknames.If you cannot verify the other "nicknames" with so-called reliable sources then I suggest you delete them as well. Aquatraveller 02:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Sourcing the other nicknames is fairly easy with the references already in the article; for example, www.augusta.gov Garden City of the South, on the other hand, there are zero hits on the same site for Disgusta. Edit warring is not going to get your changes in, please discuss and find sources per WP:RS. – Dreadstar †

[5] Yet another reference to Augusta as "Disgusta" and from The UK no less.. from The BBC. Seems as though just about everyone else in the world besides you knows that one of Augusta's nicknames is Disgusta. If you're not going to include all legitimate nicknames for Augusta, then don't include any at all. Just include the motto.. "We Feel Good." YOu seem absolutely unwilling to investigate the "Disgusta" link from The Augusta Chronicle.. the city's main daily newspaper.. yes.. you have to have a login to read articles on their website.. are you that lazy? Thousands of people in Augusta read the Augusta Chronicle daily.. it has the highest readership of any Augusta related website... I think that qualifies as a credible source. BUt if not then just omit the "nickname" section alltogether.. and please omit all of the opinionated CVB propoganda.. a link to their website will suffice. What's your next entry?? "Augusta would make a great candidate city to host the 2020 Summer Olympic Games."????? Aquatraveller 05:42, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Please calm down. First, let me recommend that you review all the Wikipeidia policies and guidelines. For instance, per WP:V#Burden of evidence, "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material." You need to provide WP:RS for the content you wish to add.

As for the link you provided to the Augusta Chronicle, it requires registration to view the relevant content, so it violates the guideline on WP:EL#Links_normally_to_be_avoided: #6 "Links to sites that require payment or registration to view the relevant content."

Third, the link you provided to the BBC clearly says "Nicknamed 'The Garden City', Augusta... While it does say "Augusta is also known as 'Disgusta'", I do not believe that makes it a nickname that can be included in the info box. The infobox is clearly for official information. Perhaps we can include 'disgusta' in the body of the article, perhaps where it talks about the paper mills, but it is not appropriate to put 'disgusta' in the lead or other prominent sections - unless sources show it to be sufficiently notable for that status in the article.

I'm willing to work with you on this, but you have to calm down and stop edit warring. – Dreadstar † 07:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I can assure you, even if you don't find it printed anywhere, this is the nickname most commonly used for the city. I've lived here for over 20 years and even newcomers know this nickname. It's not so much printed as it is just understood.--68.47.87.25 (talk) 17:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

CVB

I also do not believe that the convention and vistors bureau propoganda that you keep posting on this page falls within wikipedia standards. Aquatraveller 02:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Please point me to the policy or guideline that you believe backs up your removal of the Augusta Chamber of Commerce entry, I'm not sure what you are referring to. – Dreadstar † 03:18, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I've incorporated the convention and bureau link into the area listing. – Dreadstar † 04:09, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Duplicate information

The article is loaded with redundant information and links. I'm clearing out the redundant links, wikilnking per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links), and generally consolidating content. – Dreadstar † 06:54, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

GA status

I'd like to see if we can get this article back to it's former GA status. Any help would be most welcome! – Dreadstar † 17:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Automated Peer Review

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

1. Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.^[?]
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3. Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 3 mi, use 3 mi, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 3 mi.^[?]
4. When writing standard abbreviations, the abbreviations should not have a 's' to demark plurality (for example, change kms to km and lbs to lb).
5. Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called ==The Biography==, it should be changed to ==Biography==.^[?]
6. Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Wikipedia:Summary style.^[?]
7. Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.^[?]
8. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Davnel03 17:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

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• Numbers 3 & 5 are done. Dreadstar † 17:44, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Population

According to last year's estimate, the population has declined more than 5000 to 189,366[6] Iamanadam (talk) 17:44, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect Info

This article contains alot of outdated and incorrect information. Many of the links provided as reference citations do not adhere to Wikipedia standards. Much of this article can be described as "boosterism" and not an ecyclopedia entry.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.55.39.189 (talk • contribs)

Race Relations

This city has a long way to go with race relations. The races are so divided, absolutely no unity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.171.81.240 (talk) 17:58, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Article split for notable residents section?

Hi- throwing this idea out there to see if there is any consensus to split off this large (in relation to the rest of the article) section. Savannah, another mid-sized Georgia city has such an arrangement of their own at List_of_people_from_Savannah,_Georgia. Thx. 10:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

Prev comment by caveman80..not sure if I typed too many tildes or what. 10:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC) --Caveman80 (talk) 20:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Archive 1