Talk:Atom Heart Mother/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Atom Heart Mother. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Blink-182

The Bull on this album Seems to be a reference to this cow

why would you say that? 71.243.9.197 12:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.83.23.213 (talk) 16:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

Bass guitar

Is there any sources regarding Richard Wright playing bass guitar on If? According to PF Encyclopedia Roger Waters played bass. Floyd(Norway) 01:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

And the article for If now says Gilmour played the bass! Both are wrong, according to the PF Encyclopedia (I checked it myself). I'll go ahead and remove both errors. (I know Gilmour played a lot of the trickier bass parts, but there's nothing tricky about this one.) --63.25.113.207 22:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Pink Floyd played "If" on the 16 September, 1970 at the Paris Theatre, London UK which was broadcast on BBC radio. In the introduction to the song, John Peel announced that Rick Wright would play organ and bass for the song (to allow Roger to play acoustic guitar). Perhaps this is where the idea comes from. Although, in a multitrack studio, this feat needen't be reproduced. --Seeker UK 15:35, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Thorgerson

Where's the citation for Thorgerson saying he photographed the cow as the first thing he saw? Pick up a copy of Mind Over Matter: The Images of Pink Floyd by Thorgerson. He says there that he spoke with John Blake, an out of work photographer, and it was he who suggested the cow as a design. There were also two other prototype designs. It wasn't random.

Anyone care to back me up? Hinkleyp 17:36, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

The article makes it plain the concept was pre-planned. When Thorgerson says "first thing", he probably meant "first cow". I believe the quote is accurate, so it should stand, even if he didn't express himself clearly. There is a citation, but the link doesn't work anymore. --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 16:18, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Again Nicholas Schaffner's book: 'A Saucerful Of Secrets' has something to say on this re Thorgerson: "...Storm heard his friend John Blake cite Andy Warhol's famous cow wallpaper as the ultimate in ordinariness. This conversation inspired him to drive through Essex and photograph the first cow he saw, in the manner of animal textbooks he remembered from school. The result was, in Thorgerson's phrase, 'the ultimate picture of a cow. It's just totally COW'." NH89.243.99.1 (talk) 00:07, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

American Charts

I am kinda fed up with people only giving chart details of how English bands performed in America. Floyd were not accepted in America until they became mainstream with DSOTM, so there is no point only sourcing American Charts as they never had the publicity there. Someone please find out the album chart scores for Floyd in the UK to make these things clear. Blargh —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.241.139 (talk) 12:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

Any reason you can't do that yourself? --63.25.113.207 22:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

It's being kept in. The Floyd's success was not over night - Meddle and the 1972 the single "Free Four", were both minor successes before Dark Side. They were grown in popularity. Doc Strange 15:37, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the complaint was about the absence of UK chart info, rather than the presence of the US chart, and I agree. This problem exists for most Pink Floyd albums, but has been fixed on this one (though I'd like to see the UK chart stat appear first). It would be nice if someone took a few moments to look up all Pink Floyd albums the UK charts, using the link already found in this article. --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 16:13, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Before someone tells me I should do it myself... I dunnit! - for all Pink Floyd album pages. And where the UK chart info was already on a page, I moved it above the USA chart entry for the same year. Also cleaned up section divisions, etc. --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 22:26, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Well done that man! NH89.240.239.38 (talk) 22:29, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Quotes

The quotes added here appear to be about the suite, not the album - note that Gilmour still plays Fat Old Sun and reportedly wanted to include it on the Echoes compilation. Anyone object to (re)moving them? Andy Mabbett 07:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Newspaper Headline

I won't make any changes, because there's a good chance I'm wrong, but if I'm not mistaken, the book "A Saucerful of Secrets" says that the headline of the newspaper the band got the title from simply read, "ATOM HEART MOTHER" Anybody know more about this? 24.34.215.160 00:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes. You're right. I've just come back from tonight's superb performance of the AHM suite live featuring Ron Geesin and David Gilmour, and Ron put the original Evening Standard article from 16/7/70 up on the screen behind him. The headline is ATOM HEART MOTHER NAMED and sounds as if it is later than the previously mentioned "Nuclear Drive for Woman's Heart". Ron also went on to reiterate what he said in Nicholas Schaffner's "A Saucerful of Secrets", that he suggested to Roger Waters that he might find the title in there just before the John Peel session. The article was unearthed by Ron's son, Joe.NH78.147.103.171 (talk) 01:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The book Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd explains why there would be such a headline "Atomic Heart Mother", and that is that the woman's pacemaker was nuclear powered. The name of the album and song doesn't make much sense until you find out the aspect that it comes from the inspiration for the newsarticle in Evening Standard. V Schauf (talk) 21:55, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

So given this information, why do we have a picture of an unrelated newspaper article? The article is not only up for deletion, but isn't the proper article for this entry! -- ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 02:45, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Pink Fraud do a very passable performance of AHM

UK PF Tribute Band Pink Fraud do a very passable performance of AHM - saw them last week and I reckon it's the first time I've heard anyone do this. Even Ummagumma PF TB avoided this album when I saw them last year but maybe my memory is faulty. Video'd them so I hope I can post it on YT or Veoh sometime soon. Royzee 10:39, 1 October 2007 (UTC)Royzee

Don't you want to get at least the TITLE right?

Hi, someone by the name of Gurch has removed my one and only edit 'cause s/he said it was uncostructive. I was simply trying to fix the title, which is wrong. The correct title for the Pink Floyd album is ATOM EARTH MOTHER. But if you insist on having it wrong (Atom Heart Mother), that's fine with me. The donkey is not me... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.28.141.207 (talk) 09:59, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Your changes, made without explanation, and coming from an anonymous IP, have the appearance of vandalism. But since you've responded, I'll assume you made the edit with good intentions. Do you have a copy with that title on the label? If so, it's surely a misprint, and an interesting one at that. Why not make a scan of the label, and upload it as a new section of the article? Don't try to claim it's the official title, because it isn't, but do state your copy's country of manufacture, catalogue number, and year of issue, if you can find any post-1970 date on the cover. Yes, this is original reasearch, which is discouraged at Wikipedia, but if you do a proper job of it, I'm sure it would be allowed to stand. --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 16:25, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Ron Geesin did not play the cello

An easy mistake to make as Geesin wrote the cello solo. He did not however play it as he has said in interview that he used the same lady cellist on both AHM and The Body.NH78.147.100.19 (talk) 21:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I find this hard to believe, do you have a source for this interview? I've reverted for now because I don't think the credit should be removed until it's confirmed, but you can put a "citation required" on it. Also, where does the orchestration co-credit with Wright come from? --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 00:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I have so much Floyd stuff that I can't find the exact interview but firstly, Ron Geesin does not play the cello, as a visit to his website will confirm. Secondly, in the book 'A Saucerful of Secrets' by Nicholas Schaffner (first edition) page 143, it says: 'Geesin's troubles really began when he took it upon himself to conduct the ensemble at Abbey Road studio......The cellist was congenial - they had worked together on "The Body"......'

Since Geesin on cello a common misconception (which is to say, I thought it was), maybe a note could be made about this at the bottom of the "additional personnel" with reference / link to Geesin's note on his website. --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 17:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

"Since Geesin on cello a common misconception (which is to say I thought it was)??!! Erm...could you say that again in English??!! Well Ron doesn't specifically say on his website that he DOESN'T play the cello in the same way that he doesn't specifically point out that he doesn't play the Peruvian Nose Flute! All I mean is that he does not play the cello! And that it is a fact that the cellist on AHM is NOT Ron Geesin...because Ron Geesin does not play the cello! Which I thought he and I have made clear! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.102.75 (talk) 02:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It's amazing how a sentence can become garbled if you leave out one little word or two...

Since "Geesin on cello" is a common misconception (which is to say, even I thought it was true)...

The question is... how do you know Ron Geesin doesn't play the cello, if he doesn't say so? I'm not saying you don't know, I'm saying you must have heard that somewhere, and it would be good to put a reference in the article, instead of just saying, "I know". (Y'know?) Anyway, if you don't have a reference, don't sweat it. I was just saying it would be nice... --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 04:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

As for Wright's involvement, on the previous page is this quote from Geesin: "Rick Wright looked over the choir section with me for maybe half a day....." Geesin seems a bit disparaging in this respect so as half a day doesn't really constitute orchestration, I'll leave that bit out till I can find evidence to the contrary. NH78.147.150.160 (talk) 04:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I sounded sarcastic rather than tongue in cheek! I too assumed that Geesin played the cello bit on AHM for many years until I read the particular article, which is why it stuck in my memory. There is no doubt that Ron Geesin wrote the part, as he has said so and it is unmistakably his style, but out of the three Geesin albums I have the only one which features cello is "The Body". Also, inside one of the other albums is a typewritten biography which he wrote himself and he mentions playing banjo and piano among other instruments but not the cello. He was always a bit miffed not to have been given more credit on the AHM album and in his own words his wife was "incensed". Therefore he has tended to be quite specific over what he DID do on Atom. Also, I have the unofficial AHM DVD which features him prominently talking about the suite. I'll have another look at it to see if this reveals any gems!NH89.243.227.216 (talk) 17:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Change the link to the rolling stones review

The link in the reception box is dead. I found a good link, so i will add it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iannerd97 (talk • contribs) 21:03, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011

Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=A6aq67ui0h0jj

--CactusBot (talk) 19:16, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. BNutzer (talk) 17:54, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Reference in The Simpsons

Bart named his cow Lulubelle, is that a Floyd reference? Bachi (speak to me) 17:22, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast

I actually saw this being performed in the Colston Hall Bristol also as Pink Floyd toured with this album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.232.209.209 (talk) 13:05, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Performances

Moved from user talk page

"Atom Heart Mother" article regarding music by Pink Floyd- Regarding the claim made in the article that the Breakfast track was only performed in Sheffield, which I attempted to correct and have been reverted as "published books trump personal websites":- I was at the Free Trade Hall concert in 1970, and recorded the details in my diary on the night of the concert. It has been recorded on my website for many years. The two well respected books were incorrect. I have never been to Sheffield and cannot guess at the source of the error. The sound of rice krispies and frying bacon on their large amplifiers is not to be forgotten. However if published books trump facts, so be it. Where did the books obtain their "fact"? Suggest the "fact" is at least marked as having been queried. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.97.48.225 (talk • contribs) 16:28, 11 March 2013‎

The problem with Wikipedia is that content must be verifiable - we report what is widely known and reported. We can't report "the truth" because your definition of "the truth" might be different to mine, and we'd just spend all the time arguing about everything. You'd have to ask Glenn Povey or Andy Mabbett as to their error, and if you can convince them to include it in an updated version of their books, we'd be able to cite it at that point. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 16:31, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. Same thing happened with a David Bowie concert I was at- all the magazines said he would perform with a group, who never turned up. No published reviews, so lots of web sites out there keep repeating that the group played with him. Didn't happen. Rock concerts of the time seem to be widely misreported. Perhaps it was something in the air. Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.97.48.225 (talk • contribs) 16:36, 11 March 2013‎

The way I think of it is like this - if it sounds unfair, at least it's consistently unfair across the board. Sometimes "verifiability not truth" works in a positive way - you can't just randomly accuse someone of murder of Wikipedia without utterly impeccable sources, for instance. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 16:41, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Symphonic rock

Two songs in the album ("Atom Heart Mother" and "Summer '68") are symphonic rock, so I think the album can be considered as symphonic rock. Amb1997 (talk) 14:04, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

You'll need a WP:RS for that genre. Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 18:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

New source

Ron Geesin's "The Flaming Cow" looks like an essential source for this article. Whoever gets it first, source it! Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 15:48, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit warring

Could I politely remind Emeraude (talk · contribs) that several featured articles, including The Beatles and The Dark Side of the Moon use "Abbey Road Studios" as it is a proper noun for the studio, plus its own article does not include the definitive article for its title for a studio. Calling it "reks (sic) of the worst of lazy journalese" is not constructive or helpful. State an actual policy based in the manual of style or challenge the key authors of the FAs I just mentioned. Thankyou. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 12:22, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

How petty. Firstly, giving reasons for an edit cannot be described as "not constructive or helpful". Secondly, just because several featured articles do something does not mean it is good English! Thirdly, two edits is hardly edit warring. Thank you. (And not "thankyou".) Emeraude (talk) 13:59, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

If you are taking things personally and not understanding my points, then our conversation is done. Remember to be civil and polite. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 15:34, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Well, of course I take it personally - you mentioned me in your first post! I fully understand your point (not points) and it may be correct to omit a definite article from Abbey Rd Studios, but I do notice you have not responded to any of mine. Emeraude (talk) 11:26, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Non-notable bands

@Henry Flower: - mention of these non-notable bands should go in the "Legacy" section next to the Mun Floyd performance, which is important because Gilmour and Geesin were involved. Generally we don't bother with bands covering songs as there are too many to list. Are you sure you have used reliable sources? Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 19:35, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

You seem to be confused. I haven't added mention of any bands. The section is not about a song which people do cover versions of; it's about a suite for substantial and varied forces (think Beethoven symphony, not Blue Suede Shoes). The fact that it continues to be performed is of rather obvious interest. Your comment about reliable sources is completely beside the point (unless you can find some issue mentioned on e.g. [[1]] which is at issue here). Lastly, if you would like to reorganise the article, feel free, but please stop deleting relevant content. Henry ^Flower 21:34, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

What does "performances by other forces" mean? Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 09:52, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

It means other people (in the case people other than members of Pink Floyd) did the singing and playing. Henry ^Flower 19:30, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

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Genres

Why can't go "experimental rock and psychedelic rock" if i use reliable sources? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.7.102.46 (talk) 23:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

We can certainly use the citation to the Daily Telegraph, not the greatest source (any Floyd book published traditionally ie: not self-published would be better) but generally considered acceptable enough. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 13:16, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

A one-off line of "the apotheosis of their experimental era" isn't terribly compelling as a genre-definer. ValarianB (talk) 15:12, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

"The apotheosis of their era" it's about their "experimental" albums. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.7.104.186 (talk) 16:08, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

The backwards Mellotron and "here is an important announcement" stuff on the title track from around 16:00 - 18:00 and Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast are certainly "experimental", heck if turning the tape over and playing it at half speed isn't "experimental" (for 1970 at least), I don't know what is! Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 17:39, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

[2]
But in 2016, Atom Heart Mother is probably better known for the cow than the music. Revisiting the album now is like entering a parallel universe inhabited by epic orchestral suites and songs created from the sounds of boiling kettles and frying bacon. Pink Floyd would make better albums, but it remains the apotheosis of their experimental era
[3]
Classical suites, folk, psychedelia & sonic collages, this if Floyd testing the limits of prog rock and finding they are mostly unrewarding and unlistenable.

"Experimental" and "prog rock" are the only genres you can get from these sources. "Classical", "folk", "psychedelia", and "sound collage" can be argued for, but I think it's overkill to list those.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 21:24, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

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Certifications

Having been #1 in the UK I wonder why the UK is not mentioned in the table about certifications. Didn't it at least reach Gold status there? --Gereon K. (talk) 10:35, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

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Certifications

Having been #1 in the UK I wonder why the UK is not mentioned in the table about certifications. Didn't it at least reach Gold status there? --Gereon K. (talk) 10:35, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

the cow's name

IS Lulubelle III, i checked, you don't believe me? google the word "Lulubelle III" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.99.161 (talk • contribs) 19:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Certifications

Having been #1 in the UK I wonder why the UK is not mentioned in the table about certifications. Didn't it at least reach Gold status there? --Gereon K. (talk) 10:35, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Ping: @Pigsonthewing:. --Gereon K. (talk) 09:41, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

@Gereon K.: Fixed Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 09:54, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! --Gereon K. (talk) 10:08, 16 August 2018 (UTC)