Talk:Atiq Ahmed/Archive 1

Archive 1

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 17:22, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 April 2023

death_date = (2023-04-15)April 15, 2023 Willpat1234 (talk) 17:39, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

 Already done – Special:Diff/1149988700. Favonian (talk) 17:47, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 April 2023 (2)

On April 15, 2023, justice was served when Ahmed and his brother Ashraf were gunned down during a court-mandated medical checkup in Prayagraj. Ahmed's callous response to his son's funeral, "I wasn't taken, so I didn't go," proved he deserved what was coming to him. Before Ashraf could mention the name of their accomplice, Guddu Muslim, the perpetrators, who had disguised themselves as media personnel, shot Ahmed in the head, instantly killing him. They continued to fire, taking down Ashraf as well. The entire event was broadcasted live on television, and the killers did not attempt to escape or hide their identities. They even shouted "Jai Shree Ram" as they were being apprehended. It's worth noting that Ahmed was surrounded by police officers during the incident, yet none of them intervened to stop the well-deserved punishment.

Miranjoon (talk) 19:57, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: You're being totally biased on this one. Please maintain a neutral point of view. ❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 20:04, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

spelling of his name

Is his name "Atique Ahmed" or "Atiq Ahmed"? Mixmon (talk) 21:14, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

some sources are also using Ahmad instead of Ahmed Mixmon (talk) 21:15, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

The sources are pretty confused what is the name of this individual. >>> Extorc.talk 05:22, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

@Mixmon but one thing is that I can see clearly that Atiq is more common than Atique. Do you agree? >>> Extorc.talk 05:23, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

This google trends is interesting. >>> Extorc.talk 05:36, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes Atiq is used more fequently by reliable sources. Mixmon (talk) 05:46, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 16 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Atiq Ahmed. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks (contribs) 11:36, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

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Atique Ahmed → Atiq Ahmad – A simple look at the sources and a further look into google trends suggests that Atiq is much more common than Atique. Ahmad vs Ahmed is a little debatable but Google trends suggests that Ahmad is a little more common. >>> Extorc.talk 05:54, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

• Support Atique should be changed to Atiq. However, I'm not sure about Ahmad. Mixmon (talk) 06:14, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

  The most reliable sources like The Hindu, The Indian Express, The Guardian, Reuters, BBC called him Atiq Ahmed [1][2][3][4][5][6] Mixmon (talk) 10:34, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject India has been notified of this discussion. ❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 10:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

• Atiq is the right spelling NoworNever007 (talk) 13:19, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

• Neutral Atiq is the correct spelling rather than Atique, but multiple reputable sources have his surname as Ahmed. I would support a change to Atiq Ahmed.

BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-65290042

Sky News: https://news.sky.com/story/amp/atiq-ahmed-indian-gangster-turned-politician-shot-dead-on-live-television-12858477

The Guardian: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/16/atiq-ahmed-former-mp-brother-shot-dead-live-tv-india OneRandomBrit (talk) 13:53, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

• Support Move to Atiq Ahmed per reliable sources. ─ The Aafī (talk) 06:36, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
• Comment I have recently noticed that a page with name Atiq Ahmed already exists. If consensus is achieved to rename this page to Atiq Ahmed, then the cricketer page should be moved. Gangster Atiq is more notable than cricketer Atiq in terms of pageviews and coverage in reliable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mixmon (talk • contribs) 11:44, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

  Yea, that was brought to my notice when a topic banned editor closed this request prematurely and also moved the cricketers page without discussion. >>> Extorc.talk 12:45, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Gangster-turned politician

@Nswix here you suggested that because he hasn't been convicted ever, the description should say politician and not Gangster-turned politician. WP:BLPCRIME wont apply to Ahmed because he is not a WP:LOWPROFILE. He was an active gangster. All sources clearly state that. >>> Extorc.talk 05:20, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Doesn't change that he was never convicted of crime. He's only ever been accused. Nswix (talk) 05:23, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Osama Bin Laden was never convicted. He was still a militant mastermind and a terrorist. >>> Extorc.talk 05:24, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Osama bin Laden admitted to being a militant and a terrorist. Nswix (talk) 05:25, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

And so did Atiq for his crimes.
I don't understand what you draw a disagreement with. Are you trying to apply BLPCIME to him? It doesn't apply to him. >>> Extorc.talk 05:29, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

It is not an allegation that he is a Gangster. It is a known RS backed fact. >>> Extorc.talk 05:34, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Mr. Nswix, in which country do you live? Atiq being a gangster is as obvious as humans having hair on their bodies. Even by going by wikipedia standards, EVERY single source describe him as gangster, criminal, mafia etc. He never DENIED being a criminal, in fact he admitted being a don, and flaunted it, even before 21st century. He has served years in jail, for extortion, kidnapping, murder etc. He's a History-sheeter, proven again by facts. He confessed to his most recent crime too! Either you're not an Indian, or you live in some different world. 2405:201:4019:3874:C77:4308:2DCA:6FBA (talk) 16:01, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

That's a factually wrong claim, he was convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment. Mixmon (talk) 05:53, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Also some general articles about him - [7][8][9] Mixmon (talk) 06:06, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

He was a convicted criminal serving life sentence. How would he serve in jail in both Prayagraj and then Gujarat jails? He had 100+ cases ongoing. Some of them were quashed because of connections with Samajwadi Government. 2405:201:6019:603B:BC30:C03E:4646:88D3 (talk) 15:05, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't know anything about this guy, so I come to this article completely unbiased about him because of yesterday's news. The way the article is currently written is totally unacceptable. You can't say that he's a criminal and a gangster ("criminal and gangster" are even listed as his occupation in the infobox!) unless he's been convicted of some crime or he's been widely acknowledged in reliable sources as being a member of some crime family or something. This may or may not be true about Atique Ahmed, but the claim that he's a criminal/gangster is not substantiated by the text of the article. If this claim is going to remain in the article, better evidence needs to be added. Bueller 007 (talk) 15:14, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

You should have read the entire discussion before sharing unbiased opinion. Please see these - [10][11][12][13][14] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mixmon (talk • contribs) 15:28, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

I read the entire article. As I said, relevant references for the claims in the article go IN THE ARTICLE, not on the talk page. I changed the article to read "accused criminal" as per NPOV. If he has been convicted of something, then that information needs to be in the article itself. Not just on the talk page. At the moment, there is no info in the article regarding convictions, so he should be called an "accused criminal" unless flat-out referred to as a "criminal" in a number of reliable sources. EDIT: changed to "convicted criminal" as per BBC. Bueller 007 (talk) 16:33, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

"You can't say that he's a criminal and a gangster ... unless he's been convicted ... being a member of some crime family or something."
From where do you get that @Bueller 007? If the sources overwhelmingly point that he is a gangster, there is no way we call him anything else.
"If this claim is going to remain in the article, better evidence needs to be added."
The evidence is the swathes of cited sources. >>> Extorc.talk 06:49, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm the one who added all those sources to the article... Do try to keep up. Bueller 007 (talk) 10:39, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Kindly, if anyone has any keeping-up to do, it's you. Before you entered the scene, the article already had piles of sources calling Atiq a gangster. >>> Extorc.talk 16:07, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Inadequate description of how he became so rich

A sentence in the lede suggests that he had $1.5 billion dollars in property confiscated. But the article never gets anywhere near explaining how he became so wealthy. Most criminals and gangster and corrupt politicians are obviously nowhere near this wealthy. So it's hard to believe without further information. This info should be added. In addition, I have seen references such as this one referring to him as a Robin Hood like figure. This may or may not be correct, but some information should be added to the article about why someone might have reason to believe this claim. Bueller 007 (talk) 17:28, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

There are some not so reliable sources which talk about an "election tax" he levied on election candidates. But overall I believe this line is WP:UNDUE for the lead. >>> Extorc.talk 08:18, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

This article critically examines the "Robinhood figure" tag. It might be useful if you want to add something. However, I think a new article will have to be created if were to add reactions to Atiq's assassination. Mixmon (talk) 18:27, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

This article is only 33k bytes. No need for a fork now. I would see inclusion of reactions to murder as completely fine (given they are not actually bigger than the rest of the article altogether). >>> Extorc.talk 19:11, 21 April 2023 (UTC)