Talk:Assyrian homeland

The content on this page seemed really insightful and aligned well with the referenced articles. I would choose better pictures to show the "homeland" and not borders of an Assyrian triangle. Happyracoon (talk) 19:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Merge

shouldn't this article be merged with this one: Assyrian Triangle? This article seems to be developed better, so I think that that article should be merged into this one.. Baristarim 10:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Assyrian triangle was an area in history - thus their is no assyrian triange today. This page, Assyrian homeland, is talking about the current areas inhabited by Assyrians. I think the Assyrian triange should be redirected to Assyrian independence, and be mentioned in that article. Chaldean 00:22, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I also think that might be better in that case. Baristarim 11:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

That makes sense to me as well. I recommend the above merger with Assyrian independance.Alex Jackl 17:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Population figures

If someone is going to assert population figures they should add a in-line reference. If anyone needs help with how to do that feel free to contact me. I found a reference when I was posting a message on Chaldean's talk page. It is always better to put citations in the article where they can be directly scrutinized. Thanks!Alex Jackl 00:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Redirect

This article has been redirected to Nineveh plains since after taking out the unreferenced and irrelevant content there isn't much basis for the article. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 09:46, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

It's not a fork, see comment. Shmayo (talk) 09:50, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

What comment. If you don't provide an explanation for why you've twice undone around a dozen edits; first by IP then by account, I will assume you didn't mean to revert this much and restore the last version before I redirected the page. If you don't provide a convincing, neutral, reliably referenced argument for keeping this article, I will redirect it to Nineveh plains or propose deletion. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 10:20, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

You redirected it saying it was a fork, which it's not. Shmayo (talk) 10:49, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I await explanation for why you've twice undone around a dozen edits; first by IP then by account, if not I will assume you didn't mean to revert this much and restore the last version before I redirected the page. In addition, if you don't provide a convincing, neutral, reliably referenced argument for keeping this article, I will redirect it to Nineveh plains or propose deletion. Based on your above comment it looks as if deletion may be appropriate; since you disagree with redirecting it. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 11:16, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Removing that much material is vandalism. But still your redirect is saying it's a fork, which is still false. Shmayo (talk) 11:24, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

No. Reasons were given for the removal. You must explain your revert fully or I will undo it. You reverted 12 of my edits in one go. Reasons for these edits are in the edits summaries. If you fail to give an explanation for reverting each of these 12 edits then I shall restore them, all but the redirect. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 11:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

No, you are removing material which was sourced. Keeping the sources but not what they referred to is wrong. This is starting to look like vandalism, you're removing everything that you don't like. Start making constructive edits. Shmayo (talk) 11:29, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

For example I gave you sources saying Assyrians were in majority in some areas at the Nineveh Plains talk page, but you're removing things here saying they're unreferenced. Shmayo (talk) 11:32, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

And you're removing a source saying "it's not mentioning the Assyrian homeland" when it does. Shmayo (talk) 11:35, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I will say this one last time; in the interests of trying to discuss the matter rather than edit-war. Look in the edit history of the page. Read my edit summaries and see my edits. Then explain your objection to them - one by one, here. Each edit had its own reason. If you can't be bothered to explain why an edit is wrong, I will restore that edit. I have all day to argue. Now go for it. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 11:37, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I tell you what. We can do this another way. I will restore each edit one at a time, making it easy for you to discuss them. I will start with the first one now and leave some time for you to comment. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 11:46, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I did explain some above. [1], the area is called Assyria sometimes. [2] (not commented), I can't see why the categories are removed. Greater Syria could be removed, maybe Roomrama too. [3] Again, much is sources in other articles here too. And the last sources is mentioning saying much of this. [4] Why removed the thing about that it was the homeland of the ancient Assyrians too? Again showing that it's been called Assyria. [5] I find it interesting to know what's happend to Assyrians in the Assyrian homeland. [6] As I said, it does mention that! So that is very wrong. [7] Redirecting it as a fork when it's not. Shmayo (talk) 11:50, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I've restored the first edit now. I await your objection to it (if any). When we have dealt with this I'll restore the second edit, and so on. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 11:55, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

But I've already commented everything? Shmayo (talk) 11:56, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Before you begin. I will not accept your opinions by themselves. The burden is on you to prove whether it belongs in the article. In order to do this you need to provide a convincing, neutral, reliably referenced argument, which includes secondary sources. If you are not prepared to do this, then I shall restore my edit, per WP:CYCLE. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 11:59, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

It's about reaching conscious. Assyria is for example used here [8], and it's very often used by Assyrians, which of course also counts. If Assyrians call their homeland Assyria that should be said. So both others and Assyrians is saying that. Shmayo (talk) 12:05, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

(Wikipedia:CYCLE is not a guideline or principle in any way, just a method. Shmayo (talk) 12:10, 1 May 2010 (UTC))

You are not following Wikipedia:CYCLE. Stop reverting immediately after posting a reply here. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Can you provide a quote which uses the name Assyria or Beth Nahrain to refer to this? ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 12:20, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I've already done so above. Secondly, read more why it should stay. Shmayo (talk) 12:21, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Where do I find the quote in that source? ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 12:23, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

The sources even uses Assyria as head line, and shows a map, so why act like they don't use Assyria. And again, it's not just that, read what I wrote before. Shmayo (talk) 12:30, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, it is sourc(e). Secondly, the only place the name Assyria appears is on the profile cover of the booklet which has been written by the Assyrian Universal Alliance. This doesn't count as either a neutral source nor a secondary source. And nothing to say for Beth Nahrain either. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 12:45, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Since you have reverted and are not replying I will give it an hour and restore it, because we have a dozen edits to get through and you are playing games here. You can't be bothered discussing. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 13:37, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Again, it's even the head line there. It's posted by UNPO.org. Still your ignoring the first I wrote about Assyria. And remember that the area was called Assyria even after the fall of empire. I won't be able to reply in a couple of hours, I'll answer you then. Shmayo (talk) 14:08, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

You have ignored my reply. Here it is again: The only place the name Assyria appears is on the profile cover of the booklet which has been written by the Assyrian Universal Alliance. This doesn't count as either a neutral source nor a secondary source. And nothing to say for Beth Nahrain either.

I'm not playing silly games where you might think giving any quick reply will buy you time. Stop ignoring my replies. I want a proper discussion about this. You have reverted 12 of my edits in one go. These edits had their own reasons. So, I am going to make you properly justify undoing them, otherwise naturally I will restore them. And don't confuse UNPO for a UN organization. The UN stands for 'Unrecognized Nations'. They are defined as unrecognized therefore nobody recognizes them nor their names, except this organization, which is open to anybody and which represents the POV of anybody. It doesn't count as a secondary source. All they are doing is representing an 'unrecognized' Assyria. Read WP:PSTS. You haven't demonstrated in any way how this is a secondary source. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 14:17, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Who is the one ignoring things here? You still have not answered to what I first said about Assyria. I'll quote: "and it's very often used by Assyrians, which of course also counts. If Assyrians call their homeland Assyria that should be said. So both others and Assyrians is saying that.". "They are defined as unrecognized therefore nobody recognizes them nor their names" No, it's not like nobody exept Kurds recognize the name "Kurdistan". The same here. The articles name isn't Assyria, because it's not a recognized state/autonomous. It's called Assyrian homeland, but it's worth to mention that it's called Assyria too (doesn't matter if it is by others or Assyrians). Now this is a neutral source. According to you it's written by AUA, but it says nothing about that. And again, the area have been knows as Assyria after the fall of the empire. Beth Nahrin could be removed here. Shmayo (talk) 16:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Then it should be stated that Assyria is used by Assyrians. You haven't provided real evidence that non-Assyrians call this area Assyria. Ok. I will restore the first edit leaving Assyria in, but I will make it clear that it is used by Assyrians. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 17:35, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Right, on to the second edit then. Instead of restoring it which you don't like, I'll just link it here: [9]. I think the Roomrama link is just nationalist pushing, and the others seem bogus and unneeded. Do you have any strong feelings here? If so please explain how and why, and within a reasonable amount of time so we can move on to edit three. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 17:49, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Roomrama could be interesting, but sure it can be removed. I think that the categories fits here. Shmayo (talk) 09:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I would think Fertile Crescent and Greater Syria are daft on here. Do you think Assyrian homeland fits with those? ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 04:53, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

The categories, not Greater Syria. Why would those categories fit here? Shmayo (talk) 19:02, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the only category that fits is Geography of the Middle East. It's not an article about a person so why the Assyrian people category? ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 19:15, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Well it's in the Fertile Crescent too? So why remove that one? Shmayo (talk) 19:52, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I suppose so, but does it need both? Did you agree about Assyrian people category? I want to perform this edit [10] because it's about Chaldeans and I really don't see how it is needed here. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 20:32, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Filling categories with pages is how you build a big category. I don't think articles should be left out from some categories just because there is a similar one that also could be used. Yes, I do. Do you want to remove that part just because it's about Chaldean Catholics? Shmayo (talk) 20:42, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok both categories it is then. I want to remove it because I don't think it particularly relates to the subject. Did you read it? Since Assyria doesn't redirect here, there is no need for the "For other uses, see Assyria (disambiguation)". I want to remove this "It is largely coterminous with the Kurdish homeland, including parts of what is now Syria Lebanon, Iraq, Iran and Turkey." from the beginning because it is unreferenced, and I believe not right. I think the Geography section needs removing too. It's just an unreferenced claim of territory with a comment about other ethnicities beneath it, as if implying they are the minority. ܥܝܪܐܩ (talk) 20:51, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it's talking about Assyrians in the Assyrian homeland. The situation of the people in the area is interesting. I think that "Assyrian homeland" could mean Assyria. Some people are maybe looking for Assyria, then it's good to have it there. About the sentence and Geography section, there are many describing these parts as the home of Assyrians: [11][12][13][14]. But Lebanon could be removed. Shmayo (talk) 15:39, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

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Recent edits

Recent edits here seem to have crammed half of Assyria into this page (why? and without attribution) so that the editor involved can then suggest removing Assyria (why?). It may be redundant to say I don't think this is a good idea.

Ping LouisAragon Wikaviani who are dealing with the same editor elsewhere. Pinkbeast (talk) 02:42, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

@Nemrud91: I would suggest you to propose a merge. Also, please refrain from adding unsourced content to some Assyria related articles, otherwise, a topic ban can be proposed. Even if you think that what the sources say is wrong, please keep in mind that Wikipedia goes with what reliable published sources state, not with users' personal opinions. Thank you.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 08:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Merge assyria with assyrian homeland please

Hi, its Nemrud91, l have stopped rewriting assyrian homeland with assyria. BUT, l would want assyria to be merged with assyrian homeland because as l am myself assyrian and l know my history l know its not necessary to have two "assyria". If we would have some sort of autonomy or a country in the future assyria homeland will be our country, also why have two assyria, its not necessary, assyrian homeland IS assyria! please discuss this with me because l am an expert on assyrian and mesopotamian history, having read about it in 5-9 years. I have read and finished my studies on university in sweden two years ago on history. I know a lot of world history having read about everyone, well most of them.

If you dont like the idea of merging them, its okay, its just a suggestion.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemrud91 (talk • contribs) 03:01, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

yes merge the two articles

Nadia Farahat (talk) 09:46, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Suggested merge

Hi all!

I want to suggest {{Merge from}} Assyria to assyrian homeland because why have two assyria article, also, if we had a sort of autonomy or country in the future assyrian homeland will be the one rewritten...

Discuss....— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemrud91 (talk • contribs) 12:20, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

I do not have an opinion on this merge, but want to note a few things. First, as a procedural matter I am placing merge tags on both articles directed to the discussion section here. Second, as the above sections on the talk page show, there have been several discussions over the years, and other mentioned pages to merge (besides Nimrud91's current proposal to merge with Assyria) include Assyrian independence movement, Assyrian triangle (now a redirect to the independence movement), and Nineveh plains. As a complete outsider to this topic, there does seem to be overlap in these topics, and some manner of consolidation could be useful to both centralize comprehensive coverage and prevent POV-forking. Even if not, getting some more recent consensus could be helpful, as the last discussion was over 8 years ago.

Third, while I think a merge is worth discussing, I would caution Nimrud91 that the arguments you've made up to this point. aren't likely to get very far. Editorial decisions here are not based on the personal identity, experience, or even credentials of editors, but based on reliable and independent secondary sources. We also don't generally make decisions revolving around potential future political configurations. That's not to say there's not something worth discussing here, but you can't make an argument from your own personal feelings. MarginalCost (talk) 13:49, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes, this is my personal feeling, but l really want to discuss this with you, we already have 2 assyria article, assyrian homeland and assyria, both are assyria.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemrud91 (talk • contribs) 14:49, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

It would be more easy to just merge nineveh plains and all sort of possibly autonomy to assyrian homeland, it would be more easy for assyrians to know what to look for if there were only ONE assyrian homeland and history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemrud91 (talk • contribs) 14:51, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Oppose. The two pages cover different topics in a sensible fashion; leave them be. Pinkbeast (talk) 03:10, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Okay, that is your opinion. But l really want to hear other wikipedia editors opinion on this matter. Both of them covers exactly the same thing with a little bit differences. But both of them covers the history of assyria. Assyria article covers more about the history of assyria, maybe we should rename assyrian homeland to just assyria? What do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemrud91 (talk • contribs) 07:20, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Also, check the assyrian people talk page because l would also want and suggest to change the language that assyrians speak from neo-aramaic to assyrian aramaic, because there are many peoples of different ethnic groups that speak neo-aramaic, maybe we should change the name to assyrian aramaic because of three reasons.

Reason number one: We are assyrians who speak Aramaic.

Reason number two: According to many researchers of lingustics, the language modern assyrians speak is Akkadian influenced Aramaic. It is the ONLY language of the Neo aramaic languages that old assyrian dialect of akkadian(there were two dialects of akkadian, babylonian and assyrian) have influenced, and that is the syriac language. The syriac language which modern assyrians speak.

Reason number three: Assyrians call their language many things, aramaic, assyrian and syriac, why not just call it assyrian? or assyrian aramaic? that could contribute more unity between the different assyrians that exists. Remember, not all modern assyrians see their origins being from the ancient assyrians, there are those that see their origin as arameans and chaldeans, we are not united. If we changed the name of the language we could offer more unity in the future.

Check it out and l hope to here your opinions there.

I also want to say that l am new in wikipedia so all the wrong doings l did happened because l am a beginner, l haven't learned everything yet but with practise l soon will do. Nemrud91¨

Edit: How is this going, noone have said anything for days.... Nemrud91

• Strongly oppose The article Assyria is about the Assyrian Empire in ancient times. If we merge that article into this one, then we will not have an article about ancient Assyria. Furthermore, it is hotly debated among modern scholars and historians whether the modern-day "Assyrian people" are actually related to the ancient Assyrians and, if so, how closely or to what extent. Merging the article "Assyria" into "Assyrian homeland" would not just be a terrible mistake; it would also be promoting a nationalist agenda in favor of the modern-day Assyrian people. It would be like merging "Macedonia (ancient kingdom)" into the article "Macedonia (Greece)." The current separation of the two subjects is not only natural, but necessary into order to maintain WP:NPOV. --Katolophyromai (talk) 21:43, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

We are their descendants because the ancient assyrians were the first to spread aramaic, and we speak aramaic, also, genetic studies have confirmed that we are not arameans:)

Then l dont think we should merge them.Nemrud91¨

• Strong oppose. We have to separate the ancient kingdom of Assyria from the modern-day people for obvious reasons. It would be like trying to merge the article on the Roman Republic into the one on Italy. LOL. Or trying to merge the entire article on the ancient Han Dynasty into the page on China. None of that makes any sense, and neither does merging Assyria into Assyrian homeland. Pericles of Athens^Talk 06:17, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

I agree with you.Nemrud91 —Preceding undated comment added 17:34, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi all, l have now removed the merge edit because all of you agreed to not merge them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemrud91 (talk • contribs) 20:30, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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• Assyrian homeland.gif

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:20, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Add an image showing the boundaries of the Assyrian homeland

Although the article is already pretty well developed, it would be better if it showed a map displaying the size of the Assyrian homeland. Not only would the quality of the article improve but also, other articles covering the boundaries of a certain culture/ethnicity have a map displaying the borders, prevalence, and size of the lands that the ethnicity has a presence on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:4FF5:240:410E:7E1B:2DC9:2344 (talk) 01:44, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Change homeland map/picture?

Shouldn’t the Assyrian homeland wikipedia page show, after all, the Assyrian homeland? Why would we need a picture of any proposed borders or where the most Assyrians lived? Our homeland is northern Iraq, northeastern Syria, southeastern Turkey and northwestern Iran, not a weirdly shaped Assyrian triangle. I think it should be replaced with a more accurate map of the Assyrian homeland which includes parts of our homeland that are in the modern countries listed above. Romanassyria (talk) 01:52, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Romanassyria This is also something that bothered me, the picture is useful and informative but there should also definitely be a picture showing the Assyrian homeland. Duchy2 (talk) 08:15, 9 November 2022 (UTC)