Talk:Association football/Archive 21

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Sphere linking

(sphere is a common word and is not that related to the topic so it doesn't need to be linked, "ball" was already linked but the first instance is usually better)

I dunno, honestly, as one of the only forms of football where the ball is actually spherical, I think there is a place for linking the word sphere. WookMuff (talk) 23:27, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Most people know what the word sphere means, and it is not directly related to the content of the article, so the link is not that necessary. Artificial turf and torso, which are also linked in the lead, probably don't need to be linked either for the same reasons, one could argue they are less common terms than sphere though. Another reason I removed the link is because I like to avoid linking two words in a row to different articles if possible, as was the case with sphere and ball. It doesn't really matter that much though, it's just a judgement call. LonelyMarble (talk) 00:08, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Cool cool, just puttin' my two cents in WookMuff (talk) 13:13, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Soccer in Spanish

Spanish ( espanoal )word for soccer!!!!

Soccer - foot ball

now you know spanish yay you!!--Selenagomez12 (talk) 00:14, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Except that Names for association football#Non-English speaking countries states that Spaniards use either fútbol or balompié... Nanonic (talk) 00:25, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

You realize that football and fútbol are pronounced the same way? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Werner ghost (talk • contribs) 22:10, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

No. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.211.198.168 (talk) 23:00, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Celtic F.C. founded 1887 or 1888

I would appreciate some opinions on this. It is on record that Celtic were first constituted on November 1887 yet it is generally said they were founded in 1888, as shown on the club badge. They played their first game in 1888 and the centenary year was in 1988. An editor has changed the founding year in the infobox to 1887 and I would rather have some advice on this before changing anything. Thanks. Jack forbes (talk) 01:43, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Moved to WT:FOOTY. See WT:FOOTY#Celtic_F.C._founded_1887_or_1888. --hippo43 (talk) 10:53, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Article Title

Assocation football is american term - Wikipedia is international, not american. The articel title should be changed to Football! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raelpl (talk • contribs) 09:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

No, association football is a British term. – PeeJay 09:31, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Here in New Zealand (an English speaking country) we predominantly use the term soccer also. Football is a more generic term applying to several sports, i.e. Aussie Rules Football (AFL), rugby, Soccer, American Football, etc, etc. I have noticed that soccer clubs in New Zealand tend to use the British term football in their official names though.

When most people here use the term football is it presumed that they probably mean soccer, but it isn't always clear. As far as I am aware the same is true in Australia, and perhaps Canada and South Africa too. The use of football as an English language term for soccer is centred mainly on the British Isles IMO. 121.73.7.84 (talk) 09:17, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

There was a massive discussion about the name of the article a couple of years back. Association football was chosen as a) American Football is called American Football, Gaelic Football is called Gaelic Football etc so it made sense to use the same format rather than the clumsy "Football (soccer)" title it used to have and also b) Because it is the official name of the game. Cls14 (talk) 23:54, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

New nickname

I add 'the world game' to nicknames, I'm sure every one agrees? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simba1409 (talk • contribs) 12:10, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

everyone agrees? this is wikipedia, theres always one douchebag whos gonna start a fight for no reason, this time its gonna be me, time to revert your edit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.217.7.177 (talk) 17:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I think it's safe to assume bad faith in the above anonymous post. – PeeJay 23:00, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Main Picture

The picture in the info box has the following caption

'An attacking player (No. 10) attempts to kick the ball past the goalkeeper and between the goalposts to score a goal'

But he could easily be squaring the ball across goal for someone else. Therefore I'm going to chamge it to

'The attacking team attempt to kick the ball past the opposition goalkeeper and between the goalposts to score a goal' Mah favourite (talk) 01:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

• I've changed it now. And looking at the picture again it seems more likely that he's crossing than shooting, he's outside the area and not much more than 6 yards from the byline so it would be a very tight angle to shoot from. I think that it's just the way that the picture is taken that makes it look like he's shooting. Anyway, the new caption covers either option (unless he's a defender who has sprinted past the two opposition players and is trying to clear the ball, think I'll leave that option though!). Mah favourite (talk) 01:20, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

A tale of two overviews

This article contains both a lead section and an "Overview" section; however, the lead is already meant to be an overview of the article. Consider merging the two sections and removing redundant or excessive details from the newly combined lead. Since this is an important and highly visible article with a name that has generated controversy, I won't boldly do so (unless urged). --an odd name 19:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't think merging the two, as such, is a great idea as both sections contain useful information. Perhaps simply renaming the 'overview' section as 'Gameplay' might be the best way forward, as that is what the section describes ie how the game is played --Pretty Green (talk) 09:53, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Re-reading the section, it does look more like an overview of "Laws" than the full article, with just enough other stuff (mainly in the last paragraph), like the Premier League goal stats, to stay as "Gameplay". --an odd name 12:12, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

FIFA / Naming dispute

To all the disillusioned football fans who are upset about this article's title because they've "never heard anyone call it association football before" ... you've all heard of / used the acronym FIFA before, right?

FIFA stands for 'Fédération Internationale de Football Association'. Translate that from French into English and you've got the 'International Federation of Association Football'.

On this basis I put it to you that you HAVE heard people refer to this sport as association football, and have probably even done so yourselves on several occasions.

If American users have to stick with American Football, the Irish with Gaelic Football, the Canucks with Canadian Football (and so on...) it's only fair that users in the rest of the English speaking world have to make do with a similar solution. All the codes of footy described at football (with the exception of the GAA, if that article is to be believed) are part of the same family anyway.

Anyone who disagrees with me is a bigot and probably a racist ;) Boabbriggs (talk) 00:15, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

After what seems like years of accessing this article under the clumsy title "Football (soccer)", I'm delighted to see that it's been moved to this much more rational name. To the disillusioned, I can only suggest that there are often occasions where an international encyclopedia will require more specific communication than we use in day-to-day life. I'd imagine that few people in the UK refer to Gordon Brown's office as "Prime Minister of the United Kingdom" in everyday speech, because "the Prime Minister" is perfectly intelligible in an one-nation context. But merging the Wikipedia articles Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and Prime minister would be absurd. - Regards, PhilipR (talk) 22:33, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Word for football/soccer player temper tantrums/hysterics/outbursts

Is there a word for the football/soccer temper tantrums of professional soccer player? When players barely get touched and they act like they are have major outbursts? Holding their foot in mock agony? I found the phrase "mock anger" but that is not the same. Should this curious phenomena be added to the article? Is there an article on soccer/football clashes beyond Association_football#Misconduct? These clashes get a lot of airplay in the United States. If there isn't an article about this, should these clashes be added to the article? Ikip (talk) 17:26, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

We have Diving (football), Misconduct (association football) and a snippet in Injury#Feigning injury. What else do we need? Nanonic (talk) 14:09, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

LOL, thanks, I was waiting for an expert opinion on Soccer wikipedia articles, now I got it :) I will look into those articles today. Ikip 15:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

BTW, in regards to wikipedia, I found WP:Mock also. But I would be interested in more sports type "mock outrage" related articles/sections. Ha, Diving (football) is the word! Ikip 08:56, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Map in history section should be changed/updated

The map in the history section (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Football_world_popularity.png) should be changed because it is quite inaccurate. I am Egyptian and I am shocked to see that we are ranked as the lowest in players per 1000 inhabitants. We have just won the Afican cup for 3 years in a row and everyone here plays football more than any other sport.(41.91.246.130 (talk) 11:29, 2 February 2010 (UTC))

I believe that map is based on the number of players affiliated to the national football associations of each country. Just because everyone in Egypt has a kickabout with their friends every Sunday doesn't mean that they contribute to the figures. – PeeJay 12:04, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Futbol

Football should be changed to Futbol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.74.99.18 (talk) 15:32, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Why? That's not an English word. – PeeJay 18:37, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Nickname 'Soccer'

I am removing Soccer from the nicknames page, the only people who call it Soccer are those who have a Football league in their own country such as America or Australia. Those who support the sport don't refer to it as Soccer so how can it be considered a nickname? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simba1409 (talk • contribs) 07:29, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Soccer is a word originally deriving from association, similar to rugger. It is used across the globe, not least in the UK, where there are 20.1 million google pages using the phrase [1]. --Pretty Green (talk) 09:35, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

take a look here, see the number difference? [2]

take a look here as well, [3]

If you want Soccer in the nicknames is fine but saying it is commonly refered to as soccer is wrong, Football is a way more common word used for the sport!

BTW non of the pro players call it Soccer! Simba1409 (talk) 20:42, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

However, many people DO call it SOCCER. Mostly in the US, but it is quite a common term. Halofanatic333 (talk) 12:18, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I know this is going to go round and round for ever, and I don’t have the energy to fight this full-time, which is what it would take to get the page moved from the universally reviled title of association football, but I feel I should point out if it’s “mostly in the U.S.,” that’s only by benefit of its population. I can’t imagine it’s very common in Australia to refer to it as football, given the overshadowing popularity of rugger and Aussie rules in the country, and when you combine that with sometimes in Ireland, almost all time time in Canada, etc.… so when you add it up, I don’t know that you can characterize the use of soccer as a primarily U.S. thing. —Wiki Wikardo 20:56, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Page name

Shouldn't it be a capital F? I can't change it however!

Simba1409 (talk) 07:38, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

No, as it is not a proper noun. See also Rugby union, Rugby league, Table tennis etc. --Pretty Green (talk) 09:32, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Change the Etymology section

The section states that most countries use the term "football" rather than "soccer". That is fine but the wording makes it look like only the United States and Canada use the term "soccer" even though a decent number of Asian countries use a variation of the term. I propose that this should be reworded in a way that shows the use in more than just these two countries. Maybe a map with colors based on the name? Or maybe just something as simple as adding "and a few other countries". Though I believe a few of the major countries like Japan and Korea should at least be listed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.50.255.30 (talk) 19:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Someone recently changed the wording of that section. I changed it back to the old wording as I think it's more neutral and accurate and addresses the concerns raised here. If you want more information, like a map, you should check the two articles listed in the see also, Names for association football and Football (word). LonelyMarble (talk) 20:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

The name of the game is "soccer". People make it out as though we in the U.S. incorrectly refer to football as soccer. That is incorrect. They incorrectly refer to it as football. In the U.K., "football" is considered a blue collar term. Members of the aristocracy still refer to the game by its correct name of soccer.Mk5384 (talk) 18:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Nope, the name of the game is Association Football, from which "soccer" is derived. In the UK "football" is by far and away the most common term for it, since Association Football is by far and away the most popular variant of the various types of football that there are. And what the aristocracy supposedly call it{{citation needed}} is really neither here nor there. BEVE (talk)  19:27, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
The name of the game is not "association football". It is commonly referred to as football, just like the peanut, which is a fruit, is commonly referred to as a nut. It's proper name is "soccer". Want a cite? See, Among the Thugs by Bill Buford.Mk5384 (talk) 18:50, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Look at the earliest "football" matches played in the U.K., and you will see that they were indeed, called soccer. (Kind of appropriate, as that is the name of the game.)Mk5384 (talk) 18:53, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Is there evidence for the name "soccer" coming from some other source? The Football Association formed the rules for the modern game, and they call it simply "football" and it is called "association" to distinguish it from other types of football. 4.243.40.17 (talk) 06:33, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

South Africa refers to the game as "soccer" but is not listed as one of the countries that does so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.167.183.79 (talk) 22:31, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Probably because the national governing body for association football in South Africa is the South African Football Association. – PeeJay 23:05, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The name of the game is "soccer" as it refers to "classic football", as FIFA (Federation Internationale de Football Association) mentions on its official page. The use of the term "football" alone becomes misleading mainly when it is used in other articles. Talencar (talk) 13:04, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

So why is it called FIFA rather than FIS? BEVE (talk)  16:08, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Obviously, the game is commonly called football in some parts of the world and soccer in others. I'd suggest adding a coloured map to indicate which English-speaking countries' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_English_is_an_official_language) inhabitants usually call the game football and which soccer. Football: UK, Pakistan. Soccer: USA, Canada, India, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, Tanzania, Uganda, Kenya, Sudan. Can anyone verify or add to the list? --41.245.144.229 (talk) 10:53, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

picture

The first picture reads "The attacking team attempt to kick the ball past the opposition goalkeeper and between the goalposts to score a goal." It seems it should say "The attacking team attempts..." I cannot edit because I am anon. 129.133.206.180 (talk) 05:58, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I think the current form is fine in British English, where collective nouns can take the plural. It certainly reads fine to me. ReadingOldBoy (talk) 08:24, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Collective nouns can be taken as plural, but here it seems strange since the image shows a single team member kicking the ball. I think it would read better with the verb changed to singular. Rreagan007 (talk) 21:35, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Far better would be to restore the previous wording, changed in this ill-advised edit. I've restored the original wording, with a little clarification. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

My reason for changing the caption, as I said at the time, was because it looks to me like the Number 10 is actually trying to cross the ball rather than score himself. Alternatively he could be a defender trying to clear the ball. Or he could have been bribed by a Far Eastern betting syndicate and be trying to deliberately miss. Or he could be part of a slightly strange looking photoshopped picture and have no relation to and therefore motivation regarding the rest of the events depicted. Or he could have lost all interest in the game because he's worried about about whether or not John Terry is in bed with his girlfriend. Or he could be a robot and have no understanding of this human concept of goalscoring. Or he could be trying to kick the ball at a small child in the stand behind the goal. Or he might be wondering whether soccer or football is the most common name for the sport he is playing and therefore what would be the best name for the wikipedia page he is on. Either way it is surely original research to say what he is trying to do in the caption without any definite proof. If you can provide a source written by the player outlining his beliefs and motivation at the time the picture was taken then I may be prepared to accept the revision, or at least the addition of an extra 's'. Of course some secondary sources providing additional analysis of what the player was or wasn't trying to do would also help (this is after all a featured article). Until these sources are provided I suggest that the caption is changed to simply 'Football' (or would 'Soccer' be better?). I also think that the name of the article should be changed to Kickball and that any words with an 's' on the end should have it removed and that an 's' should be added to the end of all other words. Goodnight. Mah favourite (talk) 00:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Use of the term football

I suggest that the sport be referred to as association football throughout the article. This allows for a neutral and even-handed treatment of the subject and, very importantly, avoids any confusion with one of the game's popular names football as used in the UK and other places. The same should apply to the use of soccer.--41.245.144.229 (talk) 10:54, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Unpopularity in the United States

Should a section on association football's unpopularity in the U.S. be added to this page? Considering association football's nearly worldwide popularity, it would seem to me that this phenomenon is notable. There is a large quantity of sources that have analyzed this phenomenon and come to different conclusions. All could be represented here. Thoughts? -User in Washington DC, Max...no account. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.32.192.33 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 11 December 2009

I think it would be better as a seperate article. There are probably loads of similar topics that could be suggested but as soon as you start to cover them in any detail it would be impractical to keep them in this article. If it's just a couple of sentences it could go here but, as you mention, there are probably loads of theories so it would quickly become reasonably lengthy. If you do write something you could always post it here on the talk page and let people discuss whether to put it in this article or start a new one. Mah favourite (talk) 00:33, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Isn't there an article about Soccer in the United States? There is already a section about the sport's popularity in that country there, so if you feel the need to add anything, I suggest you add it there. – PeeJay 09:59, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with PeeJay. Moreover, singling out the US as opposed to say Venezuela, the Dominican Republic, Ireland, or Australia, seems to me to hint at a sort of Wikipedia:Systemic bias. But a brief, balanced mention in this article about areas of the world where association football isn't the unquestioned #1 sport is probably reasonable. - PhilipR (talk) 22:25, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

But it is the 4th biggest sport in the US and growing. It is also the biggest recreational sport in the US. Therefore for these reasons I oppose. IJA (talk) 02:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

They don't play succer in the US like they do in Europe and around the world. Soccer is less of a sport in the US and popular worldwide but the sad thing is US pays more money to the American players than any other country. It is sad, why do the Americans have to pay for much for it's players. Imagine making $50 million a year in soccer making make less than 2% of that in some other country? Doesn't make sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.95.140.176 (talk) 08:34, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

If you are suggesting that football players earn more in the US than any other countries you are mistaken. The highest earning footballers play in England and Spain Zarcadia (talk) 18:30, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Fine I'll reword it, but we should have a area of the page which explains about the Soccer/Football thing explaining it in detail!!

Simba1409 (talk) 10:43, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

I would leave it untouched, wouldnt even link the other article. Making any modification would make a direct reference to a specific country (I know its the most powerfull in the world), & by doing this the article would lose its neutral point off view.--Elloza (talk) 13:01, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Football - who is calling soccer to the real "football"??????

I do not understand why some countries are calling soccer to the real "football" - Others like rugby or AFL are more handball than football - A great respect should be for the millions that call the football "football" instead of soccer - Defenitely should be call "football" as all administration, publicity and tradition is about football.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.131.204.49 (talk) 14:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

• NOTE: Please don't feed the trolls. – PeeJay 14:53, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

fútbol is not a nickname for the sport

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but I don't see why fútbol/futbol needs to be put up as one of the nicknames for football (on the English Wikipedia), when it is merely the Spanish translation (correct me if I'm wrong). Having fútbol as a nickname would be similar to referring to calcio (Italian for football) or fußball (German) as nicknames, which they aren't. Azzurro2882 (talk) 06:30, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Not completely: Many Americans (esp. teens) use some Spanish terms in their slang (hola, amigo, chupas mis huevos, etc.) But you're right that this instance still isn't not common enough to warrant anything but a link to es:fútbol. -LlywelynII (talk) 10:16, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Soccer - Samoa

The association in Samoas is called Football Federation Samoa or Football Federation of American Samoa [4]. In the etymology section, this article wrongly says that the Samoan associations refer to the game as soccer in their names. This should be corrected. 65.93.193.22 (talk) 17:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I removed that entire sentence in the etymology section because it was uncited, therefore removing the Samoa reference. If someone wants to add a source that verifies which organizations use football or soccer go ahead. However, it may be hard to find a source that specifically mentions countries that speak English as a primary language, which would be the relevant organizations to note. LonelyMarble (talk) 18:38, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

It is still beneficial to add that the United States and Canada refer to it as "soccer". I will re-add that little bit. UrbanNerd (talk) 20:40, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I changed the wording to reflect that Canada and the US are not the only countries to refer to football as soccer. Even South Africa uses soccer somewhat. LonelyMarble (talk) 14:07, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Pictures are all of men's football

Why aren't there any pictures of women's football. It seems like at least one is justified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.107.105.35 (talk) 03:17, 18 June 2010 (UTC)