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POV Issues

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There is a lot of bias throughout the biography. For example, "The play the part rather well" is a very biased statement and the description of the guitar playing as "very techical" shows a slight bias as well. More bias exist in describing the band "more poetic and existential" than other death metal bands and describing their delivery as "unique and carefully-measured". I will add a neutrality message box until these biases are resolved. TheUnionBlood 05:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I personally don't agree with this point of view, though the phrase 'They play the part rather well' is confusing. The reputation of Assuck is well founded and I have yet to come across anyone who would disagree with the description of them. I would like to know where the text originates from though. Jamiex13x (talk) 16:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The biography needs deleting and re-writing. It seriously violates NPOV and aside from that is written in terrible English. I'll try and get round to writing something tomorrow. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 18:00, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Terrorizer ref

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Reviewing Anticapital (emphasis mine): "Whilst Misery Index may be, dare we say it too death metal and perhaps even a touch overrated, the Floridian crusties' fiercely politicised death/grind debut LP (fifteen songs in seventeen minutes) is a low-calibre battery of brooding, malicious, doom-ridden grind pitched somewhere between early Napalm Death and even earlier Bolt Thrower." Please don't remove sourced content; that constitutes vandalism. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:00, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article from Maximumrocknroll states, quite clearly: "Assuck managed to combine the anger, fury and social commentary of a punk band with the musicianship and production quality of a Death Metal band the result was a total assault of manic Grind power." Stop removing sourced material; there are two perfectly reliable ones now provided. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note that there is no question that this band is also grindcore, which is why I provided sources for that as well. Can SPAs stop vandalising the page by removing sourced material now please? Feel free to come discuss your grievances here if you have any. Word of wanring though... reliable sources trump POV. This means that even if you were in the band and felt you weren't death metal, that is irrelevant to this discussion, as if a journalist in a commercially-published print source (for instance) states that you are, then that's what stays in the article. Both Terrorizer and Maximumrocknroll are excellent reliable sources as far as WP is concerned, as they are commercially-published, and even better specifically concentrate on the fairly niche genres of underground metal and punk. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 11:41, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Given this Maximum Rock and Roll quote, the band should also be listed as a punk band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steveheritage (talk • contribs) 00:35, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know Baz--I don't read that particular quote as saying "they're death metal," though the Anticapital quote clearly does. (And I have reverted the edit that said they're punk--information added only to make a point, Steve H.) It says they got their stuff from two different corners, so to speak. What does Terrorizer say?

Steve H., I don't know if other articles receive this much scrutiny--let's hope that they do. Drmies (talk) 03:58, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. The Anticapital quote is from Terrorizer, which I feel is fairly conclusive. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 12:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Using Assuck and death metal in the same sentence is an insult to Assuck and my sensibilities. I'm going to add a dimwit tag until somebody rectifies this matter. You may now continue your genre masturbation debates. :p re: If it's a sourced quote, I don't see what the issue is, as long as it's framed in some quality prose. :) I added an external link section with a link to a non copyright violating live clip that demonstrates the stylistic nature of the band without resorting to the use of limiting genre classifications. Strangersound (talk) 04:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The "punk" classification was not added "only to make a point." Assuck was primarily a punk band. We played punk venues in America, Europe, and the US. We toured with punk and grindcore bands exclusively. Our shows were nothing like your "death metal" shows. Besides a different kind of musicianship and lyricism, Assuck had a DIY ethos that "death metal" completely lacks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steveheritage (talk • contribs) 12:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And, let's not hope other articles receive this much scrutiny. For some reason the two of you are bent on calling this band "death metal." You have some sort of crusade. Yet if you were truly into this music you would know that Assuck is not death metal -- based on simple comparison with bands that are well-known as death metal acts, or knowledge of different kinds of music, or knowledge of the kind of band that Assuck was (especially our politics). Basically, the comparison is valid only in terms of musicianship and some elements of style, like deep vocals and double-kick. You cite some article from "Terrorizer" (a lame fanzine) as "verifiable proof" that this band is what you claim? Your other "verifiable sources" do not check out. You all should become more familiar with the different kinds of hardcore and metal before launching such a crusade. Maybe you could speak with a least a modicum of authority if you were actually around when the bands you write of were playing. Obviously you were not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steveheritage (talk • contribs) 12:44, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RELIABLE supports Blackmetalbaz's position. Assück is both grindcore and death metal. The DIY approach is a conceptual element, besides, not a musical one. Aryder779 (talk) 20:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Steve -- I was a part of the DIY hardcore scene in the late '90s, and I distinctly remember people saying that Assück was basically a death metal band. Of course, not exactly like Morbid Angel or Death, but we were all familiar with grindcore and powerviolence and crust, and it still seemed sensible to say that Assück was more death metal than any of those forms of extreme punk, regardless of its politics and scene position. And I have a great deal of respect of Assück's politics and music; I'm not on any kind of crusade, and I have no desire to diminish their work. Aryder779 (talk) 03:27, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Glad to hear your input. The current genre definition is the most accurate (punk, grindcore, death metal). Stylistically, Assuck combined elements of all three of these genres and subgenres. Politically, Assuck was a punk and hardcore band. Musically, and in terms of production, it was more akin to a grindcore or death metal band. Overall, the band was a sort of bridge between different styles and genres -- Assuck played and toured with emo-rock bands like Hot Water Music, power violence bands like Man is the Bastard, as well as (melodic) death metal bands like Fear Factory. Assuck shows were typically attended by fans of a broad range of music. So, in short, the current classification best reflects the diversity of shows played by Assuck, the diversity of the band's fan base, as well as the stylistic hybridity of it's music. Cheers. Steveheritage (talk) 16:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Former members section

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Apparently there is some controversy here and some legitimate former members have been deleted. Are there are sources for these supposed former members? To be honest, it would be massively helpful to find a decent biography in a reliable source, and a bunch of interviews would be handy too. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 11:33, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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