Talk:As Above, So Below

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Occult

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On 14 June 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from As above, so below (disambiguation) to As Above, So Below. The result of the discussion was moved.

Not just a redirect

The last editor modified this page to a redirect to the Emerald Tablet. While I agree that this would be appropriate if this page was never more then a stub, the idea with this page is a discussion to all the references to the "as above, so below" concept--not just the Emerald Tablet. It could include examples of art and music that reflect this concept in addition to written references. I just personally haven't had the time to expand out. So, please expand as opposed to just change to a redirect to one of the references to the concept. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ptdecker (talk • contribs) 15:58, 29 December 2006.

Oops! Sorry about that.--P Todd 22:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, Ptdecker. However, if that's the case, then this page needs more than a 3 paragraph lead and a list of references in Rock Music, doesn't it? Eaglizard 16:35, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Quite so, Eaglizard! Indeed, I cannot figure out why this is not merely a subsection of the Hermeticism article, which discusses this concept. Looking again, I see that there is nothing in this article---other than the rock music lyrics, which are largely irrelevant---that is not already covered in the Hermeticism article. Therefore, I see no reason for this article to continue to exist. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 19:06, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merged into Hermeticism--P Todd (talk) 03:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 7 June 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure). 🐶EpicPupper (he/him | talk, FAQ, contribs) 04:01, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It was proposed in this section that As above, so below (disambiguation) be renamed and moved to As Above, So Below.

The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment.

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

As above, so below (disambiguation) → As Above, So Below – All entries in the disambiguation page are capitalized. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 00:59, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination. All entries, other than the putative WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, do indeed use initial caps. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:35, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Question: @Zxcvbnm and Roman Spinner: according to the guideline on the naming of DAB pages, if there is a primary topic, the name of the DAB page should be the name of the primary topic with (disambiguation) added. But we clearly have a primary topic here (As above, so below; all the other articles are about works of art named after the Hermetic maxim), so I don't understand why this move is suggested? Why is the capitalization relevant (note that the other page names are capitalized because they refer to works of art)? ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 02:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Per WP:SMALLDETAILS, capitalization can alone be sufficient to distinguish a page. The saying is distinguished from the other pages by capitalization._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 02:36, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, capitalization is sufficient to distinguish the page names of the articles themselves (e.g., Iron maiden and Iron Maiden). It also renders it technically possible to let the capitalized version be a DAB page. However, just because something's technically possible does not mean that we should do it. Since it breaks with the relevant guideline, it needs a good rationale. I'm just curious, what is the rationale in this case (why would it be better)? ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 02:59, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - According to WP:QUALIFIER, parenthetical disambiguation should be used as a last resort. Capitalization counts as natural disambiguation, which is always preferable, at least so says Wikipedia policy and established guidelines._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 03:04, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      - As I understand it, that would be a reason, e.g., to name the article on the film "As Above, So Below", because it is naturally disambiguated from "As above, so below" (if the film were the only work of art called that way; however, since there are also albums and songs called "As Above, So Below", we have As Above, So Below (film)). Having a parenthetical in the name of DAB pages, on the other hand, does not serve to disambiguate the DAB page itself, and replacing it with a capitalized version of the primary topic does not function as a natural disambiguation. But thank you for explaining your point of view. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 03:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      - Or perhaps DAB pages do need to be disambiguated from article pages, and a DAB page disambiguating works of art called "As Above, So Below" can be naturally disambiguated from As above, so below by giving it the capitalized name As Above, So Below rather than with a disambiguating parenthetical "(disambiguation)"? Perhaps there is a common practice for this sort of thing? I've asked someone with more experience to weigh in. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 04:21, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support: I asked a user with lots of experience regarding dab pages, and according to them the RM doesn't make much of a difference. If that's the case, it's better to support a well-meaning proposal than to oppose it. ☿ (Apaugasma) talk|contribs 08:36, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support but moved to As Above So Below per WP:DABNAME since not all of the entries use the comma. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:29, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The guideline you cite says that we should use the simplest form, but also that we should prefer the spelling that reflects the majority of items. 10 out of 14 entries (as well as the popular Hermetic saying they are all based on) do have the comma, and it would be weird to leave it out. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 10:02, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I was the editor whom Apaugasma asked for advice. Although I have no strong feelings, and don't know if it makes a great difference in the great scheme of things, or if there is a relevant WP:GUIDELINE which can be read in one, two, or more ways (as so many can); I like the idea that if the uncapitalised name is the basename, then the capitalised name should be the DAB page. One of my interests is to minimise the number of silly links to WP:PTOPICs (see WP:BPAT), and the precise name of the DAB page has no effect on that. Narky Blert (talk) 22:53, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As above so below currently redirects to the DAB page. IMO, so it should. Redirects to PTOPICs from minor spelling or punctuation variants are fruitful sources of bad links, for anyone who has nothing better to do than to dash off an article laughing at idiocies in WP, or to fix them. Narky Blert (talk) 23:05, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.