Talk:Arundel High School

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School fight

I've restored a contentious deletion pending a discussion here. Meters (talk) 02:28, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

First, in response to comments that have been made in edit summaries and on a user's talk page here User talk:Adavidb#Arundel High School edits: it is irrelevant if other schools' articles cover similar events or not. It also does not matter if coverage was local or not as long as there are multiple, independent reliable sources. I don't know yet that this needs to be covered in the article, but the refs look sufficient, and with eight arrests it appears to have been more than a simple schoolyard tussle.Meters (talk) 02:35, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The police were involved, but it may turn out not to have been that big a deal. I'm inclined to say that this event (at least as yet) does not meet merit inclusion under WP:NOTNEWS. Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion.

I'm looking for opinions here. The above should not be considered approval to continue the edit war by immediately removing the item again. Meters (talk) 02:48, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Every high school has fights, and the only difference in this one is that it had more than one student involved. This has occurred at many other high schools, and has been reported by the same news reporters. However, those schools do not have it on their Wikipedia pages. back in October there was a fight where 7 students were arrested at Overlea High School in Baltimore County, however, there is nothing on their Wikipedia page about it, because it is old news. This incident was not unique, and it was not controversial. It will not even be relevant anymore in a few months so there is no need to have it on the Wikipedia page. Also, the eight arrests were not all because of assault, some were due to instigation, or not complying with rules, as stated in this article: http://www.wbaltv.com/news/several-teens-arrested-after-fight-at-arundel-high-school/30316410. As I said, there have been several incidents were many students have been arrested, such as the 2012 incident at Walt Whitman High School, where several students were arrested for underage drinking at a party, and where the pit at Broadneck High School had several fights, students, including one where an 18 year old student was flown to shock trauma, and skipping and smoking, which went on for years without notice. Also, the Annapolis High School incident from two years ago, where many students were arrested because of a fight in the cafeteria, was not placed on their wiki page ether. This is all information that will not be relevant in the future. Itscatsseason (talk) 02:58, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Again, what is or is not in other schools' articles is not relevant. Some articles may have similar material that should not be in them, while other may be missing similar material that merits inclusion. Please discuss the merits of including this particular event in this particular article.

We don't know that this event will be irrelevant in the future. Perhaps it will lead to a big court case, or even a change in law. On the other hand, we don't know that it will be relevant either. It doesn't matter. What we need to look at is whether this event warrants inclusion in the article now. As I said, I'm inclined to say no. I don't think this meets the standard of enduring notability of an event in WP:NOTNEWS. But that's just my opinion. At least two editors wanted it in the article, so I'm happy to wait for their (or other) opinions. There's no BLP issue here so there's no rush. If no-one someone comes up with a good argument to keep this material it can be deleted in a few days. Meters (talk) 03:23, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What attracted my attention to this issue was the eight arrests and dual market coverage, and the sentence's removal due to 'not being in an applicable section'. I'd consider "local" coverage to be an Annapolis newspaper or radio station. Coverage by both Baltimore and Washington news markets seemed broad to me. I find it hard to believe that eight juvenile arrests are considered 'ho hum' at suburban high schools in Maryland. Perhaps police are making multiple such arrests with the intent of its being a preventive measure, given various incidents nationwide in which much worse violence occurred. That's not discussed in the source material. I don't consider a single sentence as being too much inclusion, and do consider it better to have the fact present until it's determined not to be a recurring pattern. Weeks later after a holiday break seems too soon for that determination. As Meters wrote above, other article content is not necessarily a precedent for policy and procedure in this article. —ADavidB 03:27, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but all the other incidents were reported by the same news media. Though Baltimore and D.C. are not local to this school which is located in the Annapolis area, it is still within the same state, it's not like it made national news coverage. These news reporters are the ones who cover all local events. For right now, it is not relevant or qualified in my opinion. Also, a big court case could come out of any ordinary fight, even between just two people, so that's not really valid reason, either.Itscatsseason (talk) 03:40, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm saying that if there's no good argument to keep this material including the merits, then it should be removed within 24 hours of the time this part of the "Talk" section was created. Itscatsseason (talk) 04:05, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Drop the other incidents. We have already explained this.

This event was also covered by the Houston Chronicle. That's Texas, so yes, in fact it did get at least some national coverage in addition to the very extensive regional coverage.

14 students were involved, the school was put in lockdown, the police arrested 8 students and police remained in the school after the lockdown ended, so it was a pretty big deal. Among the various charges six of the students were charged with 2nd degree assault. There's no mention of any serious injuries though. I'm not seeing any followup articles. It may be too soon, what with Christmas and school being out. Can anyone else find any? We may be better off to remove it until (if) there is more coverage.

There's no need to rush. Give people a few days to notice this and comment. Meters (talk) 04:35, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Houston Chronicle article doesn't exist anymore as you can see here: http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/crime/article/Teens-arrested-after-fight-at-Anne-Arundel-High-5968528.php . So that isn't really relevant. Also, the Houston Chronicle isn't really "national" news. National news is like CNN, Fox News, etc. Also, according to the former principals letter found here: http://aacps.org/html/schol/High/letters/letterArundelHS12192014.pdf , the school was placed on lockdown due to the fact that it was during the lunch hour, and students were in the hallways during the altercation. They needed to locate the students involved and clear out the halls, so it's not that big of a deal. Also, the police were at the school after the lockdown for precautionary measure only, not because they were really needed. Itscatsseason (talk) 04:52, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The online link does not have to be currently available for a ref to be a valid ref. The Houston Chronicle clearly covered the story on December 19. The story was covered by NBC and ABC, which are both national networks, so in all likelihood it was also picked up by their affiliates in other markets as well.

10:25 is not lunchtime.

I understand your view. If you actually read what I've written, so far I actually agree with you that it shouldn't be in the article, at least not now. The difference is that I'm basing my opinion on solid facts, and Wikipedia policy and precedent. I've spent too much time on this and I'm not going to spend any more time discussing it with you. I'll be happy to discuss anything new with other editors. Meters (talk) 05:07, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt that Washington news media cover all Arundel county school incidents. The incident did receive Associated Press coverage on December 19, making their summary available nationwide. Anyway, with a few days to allow any input by others, if there's no other support expressed for keeping the sentence, I'm okay with its removal. I don't see an urgent need to hide the info, though, as it is reliably sourced. —ADavidB 05:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, they have. also, I'm sorry. My point is that it's going to be old news and won't matter in the future, so it doesn't need to be there. That's all. I don't mean to be too argumentative. Itscatsseason (talk) 05:28, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

School Profile Description of Campus Type

as stated in the official Arundel High School profile in the link provided here: http://arundelhigh.org/Documents/13-14/2013-2014%20School%20Profile.pdf , Arundel is located in a suburban setting surrounded by the Chesapeake Bay and its tributaries. I think including that would be better, because it is how the school describes themselves, and it provides a better description and understanding of what kind of suburban area the school is in and what surrounds it. Though examples in the guideline include "suburban, rural, urban, etc." those are just examples, and not guidelines of what HAVE to be put in that category. Itscatsseason (talk) 03:51, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'd agree with you more if the high school were in a town adjacent to beaches, sand dunes or an ocean coast. My searches for "coastal suburban" have found it primarily used in an ecological sense rather than defining a school's campus. I think it brings to most reader's minds a more oceanic setting than Gambrills' inland coast area. Are you aware of the school campus being notably different because of its nearness to the Chesapeake Bay? —ADavidB 04:25, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As I said on Itscatsseason's talk page, he should take it up on Template talk:Infobox school if he wants to get consensus to change the way the school infobox's campus field is used. This is not the place to discuss it. Meters (talk) 04:38, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There are no "towns" in Anne Arundel County, they're all just small CDP's. There are only two towns/cities in the county, and that's it. "Coastal" is anything near the water basically, so the bay does technically count. Anne Arundel County is surrounded by the bay, so it makes sense. And technically, there are "beaches" on the Severn and South Rivers, and on the bay which Crofton and Gambrills students live near. Itscatsseason (talk) 05:02, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, another user part of the wikischools page edited Annapolis HS with the suburban, urban, etc and provided reasoning, so i guess the same applies for Arundel. Itscatsseason (talk) 05:04, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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"suburb" of Annapolis?

Someone with a poor sense of humor decided that a location midway between Annapolis and Baltimore is a suburb of the former (presumably Baltimore also falls into that category) TEDickey (talk) 20:47, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's in the Baltimore Metro area according to its article. Doug Weller talk 20:58, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is definitely not midway between Baltimore and Annapolis. It is located 18 minutes away from downtown Annapolis, and 10-15 minutes away from Parole (which is the rest of Annapolis). Baltimore is almost 35-40 minutes away Additionally, in the schools 2012 profile, they described themselves as a suburb of Annapolis. The naval academy farm is also located in Gambrills, and Arundel High School once served a lot of suburban Annapolis before. Ciliatedflower (talk) 00:34, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A quick check with Google Maps gives almost equal times for the two destinations. If you want to discuss it further, you might take the time to get a reliable source or two. TEDickey (talk) 18:24, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]