Talk:Arthur Pycroft

A fact from Arthur Pycroft appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 12 February 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that New Zealand ornithologist Arthur Pycroft ate a huia about two years before the last confirmed sighting of that bird species?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Arthur Pycroft.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:35, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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Pycroft in 1927

ALT0: ~~... that New Zealand ornithologist Arthur Pycroft (pictured) ate a huia two years before that bird species became extinct?~~ Source: "From today's perspective, Pycroft's taxidermy skills had a downside. In 2006, Auckland artist Hamish Foote had an exhibition called The Feathered Drawer, which included a painting called Pycroft's Supper, a narrative of an actual incident from about 100 years before when a bird hunter brought the carcass of a huia to Pycroft. He skinned the bird, then asked his housekeeper to cook it for his supper. Within two years, huia had vanished from the land forever." The New Zealand Herald
ALT1: ... that New Zealand ornithologist Arthur Pycroft (pictured) ate a huia about two years before the last confirmed sighting of that bird species? Source: "From today's perspective, Pycroft's taxidermy skills had a downside. In 2006, Auckland artist Hamish Foote had an exhibition called The Feathered Drawer, which included a painting called Pycroft's Supper, a narrative of an actual incident from about 100 years before when a bird hunter brought the carcass of a huia to Pycroft. He skinned the bird, then asked his housekeeper to cook it for his supper. Within two years, huia had vanished from the land forever." The New Zealand Herald in 2011; "Auckland War Memorial Museum curator of birds Brian Gill (Q101080372) is not sure when this incident took place but he calculates it was when Pycroft, born in 1875, was around 30. The last sighting of a huia was in 1907." The New Zealand Herald in 2006

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Rānui Ngārimu
Comment: The image is just a placeholder. Auckland Museum is currently digging out a much better image but it hasn't arrived yet; this one is just a placeholder but it's now 7 days since I started the article so have to get the nomination in. I have yet to work his taxidermy into the article so if anybody is super-eager to review this within hours of nominating, you won't find this story yet. It'll be there after some sleep.

Created by Schwede66 (talk). Self-nominated at 11:13, 29 January 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Article was created January 21, currently 6142 characters (1024 words). I would love if there were more sources from this century, age matters with reliable sourcing, only one, the NZ Herald article linked above, is from 2011, most are from the 1870s to 1930s. I have two issues with the hook, mainly its not in the article. Per WP:DYKRULES #3, "The fact(s) mentioned in the hook must be cited in the article." Second, even if its worked into the article, I worry the hook is in a way too precise. According to our article on the huia, it may have survived to the 1960s. And the NZ Herald article also doesn't give a date for this supper, just about 100 years before 2006. Why not just have a hook to note his role as an ornithologist and the person for whom the Pycroft's petrel bird is named for? That seems more interesting and encyclopedic to me. –– Patrick, _oѺ^∞ 16:10, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the swift review, which happened before I had finished sleeping. I've now had a chance to amend the article and the hook fact is now cited. Yes, we are talking about the last "confirmed" sighting in 1907 and to that end, I've struck ALT0 and provided ALT1. With regards to WP:AGE MATTERS, that concerns itself with scientific and academic fields, which is not what the sources cite in this article (with the exception of Pycroft's paper presented to the New Zealand Institute in 1898) so the concern isn't valid. The concern was also not correct, as there were two modern sources cited at the time of the review (which has since increased to three). With regards to the core hook fact that he as an ornithologist was eating a near-extinct bird, I'm afraid we will have to disagree. I've got over 250 DYK credits under my belt and that is the most brilliant hook that I've ever produced. Schwede 66 00:39, 30 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Uh right, I guess it's ready then.-- Patrick, _oѺ^∞ 14:56, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Death

Wikidata says 8th November, presumably based on the Find a Grave source. However, all published obituaries I've been able to find say 26 November, eg AGMANZ News, Notornis. Anyone know why there is such a discrepancy? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:17, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a citation to one of those in the article. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:33, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the Find a Grave source and WP:RSP, I see that the description makes reference to "valuable additional content, such as images not permitted for use on Wikipedia"; this is what I had used that source for. It does state, however, that it can only be an external link. I shall add this accordingly. With regards to reliability of information, I generally give more credence to information shown on gravestones than dates stated in obituaries written months after a person's death. In this case, I note:

Find a Grave shows an image of the gravestone, with life ranges for both Arthur and Minna Pycroft. In particular, it shows that he died on 8 November 1971.
AGMANZ News was published in February 1972, some months after his death.
Notornis was published on 2 June 1972.

My guess—and that is pure speculation—is that Notornis copied the death date from AGMANZ, and AGMANZ got that detail wrong. I'll see whether one of the Auckland Wikipedians is happy to go to one of their local libraries to look for a death notice / obituary published in November 1971. That way, we'd know for sure. Schwede 66 23:49, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The gravestone data are correct, Nikkimaria. Two Auckland-based Wikipedians have been to the library. I've now got the referencing details for the death notice (9 Aug) and the obituary (16 Aug) and copies of the texts. Schwede 66 18:55, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]