Talk:Arthur Adams (comics)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk · contribs) 02:08, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Prose

Early life

• "His father was a loadmaster in the United States Air Force, and as a result, his family, which would eventually include four younger brothers, migrated frequently to places like West Virginia until Arthur was five years old, when they moved to Vacaville, California, near Travis Air Force Base"..... this sentence is quite a mouthful. The first thing I would do is split this into multiple sentences. Mention the names of his parents and brothers if known. It would read better as something like "His father served as a loadmaster in the in the United States Air Force. Arthur's family frequently moved homes to accommodate his father's service, settling in Vacaville, California when Arthur was five."
• "Adams' first exposure to superhero and monster comics came through the ones his mother would buy for him once a month at a thrift store, though his enthusiasm for superhero stories by particular creators began when his father returned from an overseas trip with the first Marvel Treasury Grab-Bag, which included stories by Ross Andru, Wally Woodm and Gene Colan"..... another giant mouthful. Let's try something like "Adams first discovered superheroes and monster through comics that his mother bought monthly when he was a child. He became enthusiastic for them when his father gave him the first Marvel Treasury Grab-Bag with stories by Ross Andru, Wally Wood, and Gene Colan".
• "He was particularly interested in Marvel Comics, because they published stories featuring monster-like characters like the Thing, the Hulk, and Man-Thing"..... not too bad, but could still be better- how about "He particularly liked Marvel Comics for their stories with monster-like characters like the Thing, the Hulk, and Man-Thing" instead?
• "His interest in dinosaurs and monsters such as King Kong was also fueled by watching" → "He became interested in dinosaurs and monsters like Hong Kong after watching"
• "he harbored dreams of becoming a paleontologist" → "he aspired to be a paleontologist"
• "In a 1997 interview, Adams responded to the observation that fans had noticed a manga influence in his work by stating that Masamune Shirou was probably another influence"..... try finding a more definite answer than "probably"
• "The idea of drawing comics for a living began for Adams in high school"..... revise this to something like "Adams first thought about drawing comics professionally while in high school"
• "Adams also singles out" → "Adams also cites"
• "Simonson, who also harbored in an interest in dinosaurs and paleontology, would later become a close friend and collaborator with Adams, as would Simonson's wife, Louise Simonson, who would edit Adams' breakthrough project, Longshot"..... too lengthy and contains trivial bits, try something like "Simonson and his wife Louise became close friends and collaborators with Adams. Louise edited Adams' breakthrough project, Longshot".
• "Adams also entertained notions of becoming an actor"..... "considered" or "contemplated" becoming an actor would read much better

Career

Early work

• "Noting the popularity of the X-Men, he drew a Wolverine story for his portfolio, despite being only a casual fan of the X-Men himself, an irony that Adams himself notes, given how closely associated with the X-Men he would become in his early career"..... the bits on popularity and irony aren't really needed..... try something like "He drew a Wolverine from X-Men story for his portfolio, although was only a casual fan of X-Men at the time."
• "Although his early convention appearances led to a meeting with a collaborator who asked him to illustrate some horror material for a comic book magazine, the work, according to Adams, was poor, and it never saw print"..... doesn't read too well, try instead "Adams illustrated horror material after his early conventions, but they were deemed poor and never published."
• "Adams' first professional job came about after he met Joe Rubinstein at a Creation Convention, who took some of Adams' samples to Marvel editors Dennis O'Neil and Linda Grant, who offered Adams the chance to write and draw "The Return of Richard Buzznick", a short story for the black and white anthology, Bizarre Adventures"..... try splitting and tweaking, I suggest something like "Adam's first professional job came after meeting Joe Rubinstein at a Creation Convention. Rubinstein took some of Adams' samples to Marvel editors Dennis O'Neil and Linda Grant. They offered Adams the chance to write and draw "The Return of Richard Buzznick" for Bizarre Adventures".
• "the series was canceled before it could see print" → "the series was canceled before being published"
• "Although in retrospect, Adams dismisses this story as poorly drawn, pages from it, as well as two of the Defenders he submitted as samples to Marvel can be seen in the 2006 book, Modern Masters Volume Six: Arthur Adams published by TwoMorrows Publishing"..... doesn't sound very encyclopedic, better off as something simple like "Adams later dismissed its story as poorly drawn", and no need for the parentheses.

Longshot and X-Men

• "Al Milgrom, who was ending his career as a Marvel editor to go freelance, found Adams' samples as he was cleaning out his office for its future occupant, editor Carl Potts"..... how about "Al Milgrom was leaving Marvel when he found Adams' samples while cleaning out his office for Carl Potts" instead?
• "did layouts of 10 or 15 pages"..... I'm guessing you meant "10 to 15"- the "or" doesn't make much sense here
• "Though his rendering of action scenes was not very good, according to Adams, the editors had a positive reaction to his rendition of casual, character-based scenes"..... needs to be completely rewritten, one suggestion would be: "Adams stated that while his action scenes were not very good, the editors praised his casual, character-based scenes"

Diversification and experimentation

• "during the 80s" → "during the 1980s"
• "who feared he'd be" → "who feared he would be", contractions should be avoided unless part of quote or title

1990s monster and creator-owned work

• "Adanms also did more work for the X-Men franchise"..... typo to fix in his name
• "Although Adams had never before considered producing original material of his own creation, as he preferred to illustrate the properties he enjoyed as a child, his talks with Larsen, and his love of monsters such as King Kong led to the concept of Monkeyman and O'Brien, a duo similar in concept to Angel and the Ape"..... too lengthy, let's try "Adams had never before considered producing his own original material. He had preferred to illustrate the properties he enjoyed as a child. Adams' love of monsters such as King Kong led to the concept of Monkeyman and O'Brien".

Technique and materials

• "Adams' art style is noted for its level of detail, and he has a reputation of being a "tight" penciller"..... be more specific on "level of detail"
• "In a 1997 interview Adams stated" → "In 1997, Adams stated"
• "Adams usually works from 10am to 4 or 5pm, and often works another two to three hours after dinner"..... trivial, just doesn't belong

Influence

• "Adams is one of the most popular and widely imitated artists in the American comics industry"..... doesn't really seem suitable for inclusion

Personal life

• Joyce Chin doesn't have her own page, so unlink her. I'd include information on when they got married, how many children they have, what their names are, and when they were born.

Sourcing

• "Comics Interview" doesn't seem to have its own page, so I'd unlink it in ref#2
• "Comics Alliance" also doesn't seem to have its own page, unlink it in ref#14
• ref#21 (Mile High Comics) doesn't really need a "no date" parameter
• "Dynamic Forces" also doesn't have its own page, unlink this in ref#27. The "no date" parameter also isn't really needed. You've got an accessdate in place, after all.....

Coverage

• Many stubby paragraphs throughout the article. In fact, the "Personal Life" section solely contains of them. Expand on these or at least merge more complete paragraphs, especially the "personal life section".

Neutrality

• No problems here

Stability

• While there hasn't been any edit warring, content disputes, or massive additions/removals lately, there are many redlinks in the "Bibliography" section. These don't help the article per WP:STABLE and negatively affect stability. Either correct the links or remove altogether. They are as follows:

• Randy Stradley
• Dark Horse Extra
• Robert Boyd (comics)
• Jan Harold Brunvald
• Eric Stephenson
• Extreme Comics
• Legends of the DC Universe
• The Last of the Viking Heroes
• Genesis West Comics
• Tommy and the Monsters
• Animal Confidential
• Vortex (comics)
• Division 13
• Oblivion (Comico)
• Daring Escapes
• Lionheart (Image comics)
• Gatecrasher (Black Bull Entertainment)
• Alter Nation

• If there were only perhaps a few or maybe several, this wouldn't be a big issue. However, there currently are too many for the article to be considered stable.

GA Result

• Failing this nomination due to the numerous problems listed above. Article needs general a TNT. Better luck next time.

Discussion

Why do the above issues result in failure, much less TNT? In previous GA Reviews, I simply implemented the changes indicated, and the article in question was approved. Nightscream (talk) 20:58, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Because if an article has too many problems, the reviewer can fail it. In this case, article failed stability and prose needs lots of work. After addressing the pints listed above, renominate. Reviewers generally give nominators seven days to address concerns if there aren't already too many problems. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 21:06, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Implementing changes

Okay, I've implemented every single ones of the changes you described, with the exception of the following three, on which I hope we can compromise.

How about "Al Milgrom was leaving Marvel when he found Adams' samples while cleaning out his office for Carl Potts" instead?

I don't think that reads as clearly. Why would he be cleaning out his office for someone else? Saying "for future occupant" clarifies this. Also, the source doesn't say he was leaving Marvel. Merely that he was ending his career as an editor to go freelance, which doesn't entail leaving a particular publisher. Adams himself is a freelance, but has done most of his work for Marvel, and is probably closely associated with that company.

"Adams is one of the most popular and widely imitated artists in the American comics industry"..... doesn't really seem suitable for inclusion

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. That goes directly to his notability. I strongly stress that it be included.

'I'd include information on when they got married, how many children they have, what their names are, and when they were born.

If I had that information, I would've included it. I could not find any.

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks again. Nightscream (talk) 22:34, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Renominate this for GA and I'll look it over again. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 22:41, 7 June 2014 (UTC)