Talk:Armanum

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Please unite this page with Armani (kingdom) Minas-A (talk) 17:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Armi & Armanum

There's Armi (Syria) and Armanum. And there's also Armani (kingdom). Basically all 3 articles are about the same thing. Also there's the problem with the article name 'Armi (Syria)'. It seems to me that both Armi and Armanum are known only from the ancient texts, and neither of them is yet firmly located by scholars. So why should it be assumed that Armi is in Syria? I'd say that Armi and Armanum are the same thing. Y-barton (talk) 03:35, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to see this statement expanded somewhat, please, that "Armi and Armium were two different towns in the Ebla texts." Y-barton (talk) 03:05, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

some quotes from Edwards

Steven Edwards 2019, Ebla’s Hegemony and Its Impact on the Archaeology of the Amuq Plain in the Third Millennium BCE. PhD Thesis. University of Toronto.

"To the northeast, Ebla’s frontier was marked by Armi (Armanum in Naram-Sin’s inscriptions), probably located near where the Euphrates turns eastward, in the steppes flanking the Taurus ..." p.130

"The fortifications of Armanum were impressive enough to be warrant detailed descriptions in later Old Babylonian copies of Akkadian period sources (Archi 2011: 27). Archi argues that based on the apparent impressiveness of Armi’s citadel, coupled with the geographical inferences from the Ebla texts and other sources, Armi cannot be located at Tell Banat-Bazi, but rather is best identified with ancient Samsat (Figures 20 and 21; Archi 2011: 29-30)." p.144

So it looks like, for Edwards, Armi and Armanum are the same. Y-barton (talk) 03:47, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. What do I know? 1) The Armani (kingdom) article actually refers to a completely different polity, Iron Age and maybe Late Bronze age, East of the Tigris. Someone has grafted on a claim to be from the 3rd millennium with a source I find incorrect. Note that it is claimed as an early instantiation of Armenia as you can tell by the article having the category Former populated places in Armenia. 2) According to what I see on wiki etc, Samsat was Iron Age. If not, the article needs to be fixed. If it actually does go back to the 3rd millennium then maybe it was Armanum for all I know. Aleppo is old enough to Armi and/or Armanum. 3) A text from Ebla refers to a list of towns including "Ḫassuwan − Armi − Uršaʾum − Ibubu;Armium − Ḫassuwan − Kakmium". So I would guess that Armium and Armi are two different places.

Anyway, if you feel strongly that Armi (Syria) and Armanium are the same then you should do a merge proposal [1]. Ploversegg (talk) 02:59, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Ploversegg, for this clarification. This matter is really quite complex. After some further thought, you’re probably right that these are two separate places. The scholars seem to disagree about all these locations. So perhaps we should just lay out the options, and hope that these matters may be clarified in the future. Best regards. Y-barton (talk) 18:14, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]