Talk:Arise (Sepultura album)/GA1

GA Review

I considered this article for a review. Comments coming soon. Thank you. --Efe (talk) 08:57, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

comments

• Add United States after Tampa, Florida
  • Done.
• 52: 20 then remove (min/sec)
  • Done.
• Pipe link Roadrunner to Roadrunner records
  • Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
    • Like this [[Roadrunner Records|Roadrunner]]. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Where does that pipe linking take place? In the Infobox, in the intro paragraph or both? Musicaindustrial (talk) 14:55, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
        • Usually in the infobox, per WP:ALBUMS. --Efe (talk) 05:29, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
          • Done.
• All Music Guide's new name is Allmusic
  • Done.
• Expand the lead at least to two paragraphs to conform WP:LEAD
  • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 13:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
• Arise is
  • Done.
• Change LP to studio album or album
  • Done.
• by American? English? Australian? trash metal band Sepultura.
  • Done (Brazillian thrash metal band).
• …the album has sold….
  • Done.
• Spell out 1
  • Done.
• considered
  • Done.
• Link death in death/trash
  • Done.
• Who is Andreas Kisser?
  • Done (lead guitarrist).
• What is Beneath the Remains?
  • Done (their previous album).
• References go after the punctuation, like ref 2
  • Done.
• Who is Igor Cavalera?
  • Done (Sepultura's drummer).
• Do not include linking laden to groove (music); groove only.
  • Done.
• Who is Max Cavalera?
  • Rhythm guitar player.
    • Please identify him. Non-familiar of the subject like me can achieve smooth flow of reading if those are given context. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• Who or what is The Young Gods, Ministry? and Einstürzende Neubauten?
  • Three industrial music groups.
    • Identify them. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • "The Young Gods, Ministry and Einstürzende Neubauten were already part of Sepultura's listening habits, and slight touches of industrial music can be traced through the use of samples and sound effects." I've written this sentence in a way that implies that these three groups are industrial music artists. Musicaindustrial (talk) 16:03, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
• What is Morbid Visions?
  • Sepulturas's first album. Morbid Visions is pipe-linked so, I figured that would suffice. Is that enought? Musicaindustrial (talk) 16:03, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Done (removed Morbid Visions and put the word "old" in it's place). Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
• Production information must go before the musical style section.
  • Sorry, I don't understand what you mean (2).
    • The section "pruduction values" (which could also be shortened to production) should go before the "musical style" section. I mean, the arrangment. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done (by you). Musicaindustrial (talk) 18:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• Comma after August 1990
  • Done.
• Link Florida then again add United States for context
  • Done.
• Scott Burns reprised his role as a producer and engineer, and now Sepultura were recording at his home base… error in tense, I think
  • What would you suggest?
    • and now Sepultura were recording at his home base… This part.
      • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 13:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
• Where is Morrisound situated?
  • In August 1990, the band travelled to Florida, USA to start working on Arise. Scott Burns reprised his role as their producer and engineer, and now Sepultura were recording at his home base, Morrisound, a studio equipped to capture their music style.
    • Ah, Ok. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• …to capture their music style… sounds POVic.
  • What would you suggest (2)?
    • "a studio equipped to capture their music style". I am not sure on how to fix this but this part is kinda unclear and tends to be POVic. Was the studio equipped to capture their music? --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 13:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
• Link the dollar sign
  • Done.
• …which helped explain…
  • Done.
• Any more information about the production?
  • Not really.
• Identification for Obituary and Sadus
  • Done (extreme metallers).
• Typo in wordwide
  • Done.
• …that would span to two full years…
  • Done.
• In January 1991,
  • Done.
• Rock in Rio 2[7], a performance watched by a 70,000-strong crowd. The context given is not complete. Where did RiR2 took place? Strong here is POV.
  • The Rock in Rio festival is one of the biggest events in the international rock/pop world. And the "Rio" of "Rock in Rio" is Rio de Janeiro.
    • identify Rio. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 16:03, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
• Before heading out of their home country… where is their home country?
  • Brazil.
    • Put it. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• Where is São Paulo?
  • A major brazillian city.
    • Identify it. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done ( the country's largest city). Musicaindustrial (talk) 13:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
• When did they performed at Praça Charles Miller?
  • "Praça" is the portuguese equivalent of a public square.
    • What I mean is when? --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done (May 11th). Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• spell out MPs
  • I respectfully object to that. If I spell out MPs, it will disrupt the flow of the text.
    • Many do not know what MP is if its left unspelled. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• Local MPs expected 10,000 to attend, but 30,000 showed up, making crowd management nearly impossible. Direct source…
  • Sorry, I don't understand what you mean (3).
    • Needs a direct inline source. A source must follow this line. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • This sentence and the other two following it are taken from the same source - see footnote [10]. Musicaindustrial (talk) 14:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• Who are Sacred Reich and Heathen?
  • Two thrash metal bands. Wouldn't pipe-linking the band's names suffice? Or an extra info is really needed?
    • just say thrash metal band to give context and somehow establish relationship. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 15:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• What is Kerrang!? An American magazine? British?.
  • Done.
• What is the relevance of becoming a cover story? Of long features?
  • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 13:51, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
• Is Under Siege a song? Do not italicize; instead, use quotation marks. (note: the navigational box of this band needs formatting. The entries for the singles must not be in italics. Italics for album; quotation marks for songs.)
  • No it is a home video which and, from what I gather, is generally italicized on Wikipedia.
    • Ah, Ok. I thought its a song. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• Who are Napalm Death, Sacred Reich and Sick of It All?
  • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 15:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• There is no information about the critical reception of the album? How about the reviews of Kerrang! and Allmusic? Are their any awards?
  • The album was released in 1991, so it'll be difficult to find internet reviews written at the same time as it's release. And awards? None that I know of, 'til now...
    • No. Contemporary reviews. You added Allmusic and Kerrang in the "professional reviews" entry in the infobox, so there must be a review. At least those two. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • I've added a Metal Observer review. Musicaindustrial (talk) 19:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• Some information about the release of the album? How about the remastered release?
  • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 14:42, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
• This formatting, (music: Sepultura, lyrics: M. Cavalera), is not readable.
  • Done - I've erased that formatting.
• Do not include (Scott Burns mix) in the quotation, it's not part of the title.
  • I'm pretty sure its written that way, but I'll check my Arise CD and I'll get back to you.
    • Done.
• Singles releases must be expanded.
  • I've obliterated the "Singles" micro-section. I'm trying to do the same thing as the Roots (Sepultura album) infobox "Singles" information, but I'm having difficulty editing it.
    • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 14:00, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
• When Third World Posse was released?
  • Not relevant to this article anymore.
    • Like Third World Posee (1992). --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 01:54, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
• Pipe link EP to extended play.
  • As above.
    • Refer to above guide. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 01:54, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
• delimit vocals and rhythm guitar with a comma
  • Done.
• Tables would be better if written to prose.
  • You mean the tables in the in the "Chart positions" section? I think tables are a faster way to acess this sort of information...
    • Tables are used if there are a lot of entries. It would be better to write them in prose. Then, you can add their the reviews. Its like the general response so that the section will be huge. --Efe (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 15:08, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• Remove "See also" section.
  • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 18:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

That's all for now. Let's see the effect if these all are addressed or given proper objections. I'll put the article on hold and will pass or fail the article per GA criteria. You may drop me a message for concerns. Thank you. --Efe (talk) 06:51, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Efe, I've finished my editing. Musicaindustrial (talk) 20:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Not yet. I browsed through and saw some neglected informations. For instance, the lead says: "It was considered by critics as the peak of Sepultura's death/thrash phase." which I cannot find in the text below and is even unsourced. There are a couple of reviews in the infobox but nothing I can find in the text below, like what are their opinions? YOu can probaby add this in the commercial section, like changing the header title to "reception" or other related title. Also, the second and third paragraph of the lead is too much in detail while it does not or establish notability or importance to the album itself. Why is the style of the album not included in the lead? I think that's all. If these are addressed, I pass this to GA. Good luck. --Efe (talk) 09:55, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not convinced this is anywhere near GA status. There is plenty of unrelated information: "During their break they went to record a cover version of the Dead Kennedys song...culled from the Under Siege video were later collected on the Australian-only EP Third World Posse (1992)." can be completely deleted. The touring info too contains a lot of detail unnecessary or the lay reader. "Tragedies aside, Sepultura's three-month tour with thrash metal grups Sacred Reich and Heathen was a resounding critical success"" doesn't even resemble a professional tone of writing and the article is mostly incomplete; where is the critical reception? If the band made it to so many music magazines, why isn't anything what they wrote included? indopug (talk) 18:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

indopug, I'll adress the issues you've brought up in due time, although I have to say that the tone of your judgement on the quality of this article ("I'm not convinced this is anywhere near GA status" or "doesn't even resemble a professional tone of writing") seems harsh and unecessary. Maybe a bit more of constructive criticism next time? Musicaindustrial (talk) 20:16, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Replied on your talkpage. indopug (talk) 20:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Still watching the page. Go ahead in improving this. I will not close the GA for a week. --Efe (talk) 01:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Additional comments

This has been put on hold over two weeks. Further suggestion must be addressed in a couple of days before I decide.

• This image, Image:Sepultura and ministry 1992.jpg, has fair use problems. (removed by ImageRemovalBot) This one, Image:Sepultura arise back cover.jpg also has no use. (removed by me) FAir use cannot justify its use here. --Efe (talk) 03:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Both images have been removed since. Musicaindustrial (talk) 18:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
• I removed the review from Allmusic in the lead because you are somewhat giving weight to the review seeing that its in the lead.
  • Done (by you).
• This sentence: "Arise was widely acclaimed upon it's release, winning top reviews from conceited heavy metal magazines such as Rock Hard, Kerrang! and Metal Forces." needs to be fixed. The word conceited tends to be POVic.
  • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
• Because you mention this in the lead, you must add a new section or merge this information in one of the sections in the article. I initiated it, chaning the chart performance section header to reception; that is, to accomodate both chart performances and critical reviews.
• In the lead, there are no mentions about the album's music.
  • Done. Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Good luck. =) --Efe (talk) 11:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)