Talk:Argentine tango

Villa Urquiza style doesn't exist

The people mentioned below this section are not dancing only in Villa Urquiza. It's very hard to put them all together because their dance varies.

tangoterms.com

somebody keeps deleting the link to www.tangoterms.com - it is the only fully illustrated site available for beginers to understand the real meaning of the 12 basic tango moves. It is very relevant for this site and nothing like it is available on the internet so please reinstate the link to WWW.TANGOTERMS.COM!

i do agree: www.tangoterms.com is a sensible external link of general interest. therefore i might put it back in. - Halloleo (talk) 04:26, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I really like the www.tangoterms.com link... the people are skillful, the moves are fluid and easy to see, the focus moves between two vantage points for clarity and there is no commercial side to the page. I intend to keep checking on the page, though; since the page has two tabs that don't currently work, I expect the page to continue being developed. As such, it may at some point begin to have too much commercialism for inclusion here. Binksternet (talk) 04:30, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Well that's the point there are no basic tango moves ((the link doesn't work 4.1.15))

What a milonguero is (Unsigned commentary on semantics)

A milonguero is not every person who goes to milongas. A milonguero is a man who lives only to dance the tango. His whole life is the tango. He spends every day at milongas. Most teach tango or look for a woman to support them so that they are able to go to dance.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tangospam (talk) 21:22, June 15, 2006

Tango-related article deletion

Please vote Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tango.info (2nd nomination). `'mikka (t) 18:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Link Farm?

What criteria is there for inclusion of any particular city's Tango page, as opposed to others? Or.... why don't we have links to the Tango pages for every city? Or every Tango dance studio/venue?

To put it another way, what is the measure for prominance/significance? Because I believe there are other Tango scenes in the states that are considered better in overall quality. Even though L.A. (& even NYC) are larger in scale & population, the scenes in Portland and SF appear to be stronger and more cohesive.

If no one can answer this, I move we delete the link for the LA Tango website.

I suppose an alternative would be to add the links for other prominant sites for Tango in Nijmegan (Holland), Portland, OR, and San Francisco.... etc.. At the very least, the hubs that handle the majority of traffic for a given region or major city.

--Antelope In Search Of Truth 21:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the criteria of history: Each town and city that has developed its own Tango community, has a history. This would include dates when the scene started, by whom, what particular influences and styles existed. --nousername 20:19, 05 February 2006

Link Spam

The practice of placing new links at the top of the list, unless there is a framework/organization scheme in place that warrants such placement, is not correct procedure.

It makes the new link look like spam and attracts the attention of people who work to curtail link spamming bots. It's already questionable when you have a user with the name: TangoAfficionado adding a link to a website called TangoAfficionado.com. If that site does not hold enough notability within the LA tango community on it's own, it should be removed from mention here.

--Antelope In Search Of Truth 21:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Automated cross

The article suggests that the follower should cross automatically when the man is walking on her right side. Why should she do that? There are schools in which the crossing is indicated by the leader.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.200.26.155 (talk) 21:23, October 26, 2006

You could have just logged in and done the edit yourself..... lol

--Antelope In Search Of Truth 22:58, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

YouTube links

This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed or you would like to help spread this message contact us on this page. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 06:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Tango Nuevo

Tango Nuevo points here. Nuevo Tango is red (as I am writing). Tango nuevo redirects to Nuevo tango. I am not an expert here, but the dance part of Nuevo tango speaks something close to Tango Nuevo as described here. Please make an order with them. It particular, does it make sense to have two artices, Tango Nuevo (music) and Tango Nuevo (dance), to avoid sloppy mix? `'mikka 00:05, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, there are articles tango (music) and tango (dance). --Mariano(t/c) 11:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Origins of Tango?

The whole history of Tango is completely omitted. --dunnhaupt (talk) 14:09, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

See History of Tango. Binksternet (talk) 16:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Resurgence of Argentine tango in North America - footnotes?

There appears to have been an intention to put some footnoted references on this section , but the links are inactive. Some of the writing seems to promote certain individuals by crediting them with a big influence upon the development of tango in the US. The footnotes would lend some credibility to this essay... otherwise it's hearsay, or self promotion --BlopaGotan (talk) 18:42, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note! I put 18 references into that paragraph but didn't remember to insert a References section into the article... Fixed now! Binksternet (talk) 03:33, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Steps — Please review rewrite of this section of 'Argentine tango'

I felt this article was well-done and accurate. Except for the Steps section.

I edited it in several ways. Many of those were minor rewordings or corrections. A couple of those I consider especially important. Some people have begun using "cadencia" for rock steps. It means "cadence" as when the military steps in place to keep the marching rhythm going.

Further, some people are misspelling boleo as voleo. These are two different words; it's rather like using two when one means too, or confusing milk and silk. So I gave the derivation of boleo from its root word.

The biggest problem, however, was that the organization seemed off. Or more correctly, there was none.

So I organized it, in several ways. At the highest level was into very basic, basic, intermediate, and advanced. At that level I also focused one section on women's "steps" although they are more correctly adornos. I believe they deserve to be at that same level because it is their major contribution to any tango dance.

Within each section I also organized the individuals steps. For instance, I put the giro, media luna, and molinete together in that order because the later could build on the earlier entries.

I also showed how simple figures could be built up from a begin, middle, and end.

I mentioned two other basics (baldoso & molinete, both of which are used by a number of respected teachers in Argentina). But I spent more time on the 8-count basic because of its prominence outside Argentina. In particular, I showed that it was itself made of parts, thus not something to be danced monolithically and robotically.

I spent a lot of time on this and I believe it is basically correct. But I would not be at all surprised to find that I screwed up. Please help.

LATanguero (talk) 14:10, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I like how you've improved the Steps section, especially the part where 8CB isn't offered first. I took out an exclamation point, as such emphasis isn't very encyclopedic. I'd like to find out if there is a better word for the "something" that goes between salida and resolucion. Binksternet (talk) 14:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Introduction paragraph a bit too speculative

Am I the only one who think that the following paragraph in the introduction is not really appropriate: "As most dances have a rational-pattern which can be predicted by the follower, the ballast of previous perceptions about strict rules has to be thrown overboard and replaced by a real communication contact, creating a direct non-verbal dialogue. A tango is a living act in the moment as it happens." I'm inclined to add a 'reference needed' tag first, and later remove the paragraph unless it is rewritten or sourced properly. Any comments on this?

Minvogt (talk) 23:21, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

The articles Tango (dance) and Argentine Tango should be put together

I think the two articles Tango (dance) and Argentine Tango should be put together. They have too many topics in common. --Diego de Tenerife (talk) 14:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Tango, the dance, includes ballroom, Finnish, American, Nuevo and other tango dance styles, ones which are not Argentine. The current separation of the articles suits the subject matter. Binksternet (talk) 03:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

"Dance" Section doesn't Meet Wikipedia Standards

The section is a hodgepodge of "how to" etiquette advice, descriptions and unsubstantiated claims about the history of the dance. It should be cleaned to eliminate the "how to" and unreferenced statements.

Wikipedia is a place for encyclopedic, factual content. It is not a place for highly technical descriptions or statements that can't be supported. The reader of the entry should be able to learn something about Argentine Tango, but the purpose of the entry is not to train dancers. TippTopp (talk) 15:50, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree that this should be merged, and the section better cited; however, I disagree with your characterization that it is "instructional". I think it accurately describes certain features of the movement of this particular form of the tango, and as such, it is helpful to distinguish it from other types of tango. You might like to compare this to other articles on ethnic dance. The article on Indian Kathak, and even the one on Ballet (which ironically mentions Sergei Diaghilev, the founder of the Ballets Russes and Vaslav Nijinsky protegé only in passing!) have similar problems with citations, but overall, these descriptions helps to distinguish the different styles from one another.Jemiljan (talk) 23:28, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

US-Centric

The lengthy section on the resurgence of tango in "North America" refers only to events in the US and, because of its relative size, gives the whole article a US-centric feel.

Tango is enjoying a fresh popularity in Britain and Spain to my knowledge and no doubt elsewhere too.

I feel the US references in this section need to be considerably trimmed and the section broadened to include the Argentine tango movement in other countries outside Argentina. Tesspub (talk) 10:02, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree that other countries' resurgences should be added. However, I don't think it necessary to trim the US information in order to do that. Binksternet (talk) 16:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Text proposal

I propose the following text. The purpose is to state facts. The text is based on published sources such as the Wall Street Journal article (2011), well researched book by tango historian Virginia Gift (Tango, A History of Obsession, 2008), as well as published essay (in Chapter 3 of that book) by leading tango personality - Gustavo Naveira. In addition I added comments by Pablo Veron (this interview was also published). The purpose of this text is to show current tensions in tango development and illustrate emerging controversies which are unavoidable with commercial successes of tango culture - clash between "old" and "new". Of course the controversies are much deeper and there are more references to this cultural phenomenon. I replied in full to two users who questioned the proposed text but the text was nevertheless deleted. They questioned references but I added primary sources. Another Wikipedian felt that the text is "gossipy" because it is based on "interviews"; however the cultural history of such tensions is by definition between opposing views and I reference only one review of well know tango personality. My view is that these Wikipedians have noble goal of keeping presentation of tango culture as "pure", but we need to present balanced opinions. In other words I think it is me who brings to neutral point view the Argentine Tango article by adding this text:

In early 21 century Argentine tango is becoming increasingly commercialized through organization of such events as Mundial de tango and influx of styles. According to the Wall Street Journal in 2010 "100,000 foreign visitors came to Buenos Aires for August's World Cup and accompanying festival—a doubling of attendance in just two years." Such competitions force uniformity of style in execution of Argentine tango figures. Whereas the British Tango became the obligatory style for national and international Ballroom Tango contests Argentine tango largely escaped such codification until early 21 century. Commercialization of tango lead to controversies in Buenos Aires City Metropolitan Tango Competition which is now open to "aficionados and/or professionals of Argentine nationality" only. The worldwide influx of Argentine teachers and groving popularity of Argentine tango lead to rapid development of differing styles. This proliferation of tango styles lead to backlash in Argentina. According to Gift of all the tango styles, the milonguero engenders the most controversy because its adherents insist that it is the "true Tango" of Buenos Aires (term milonguero dance style was introduced by Susana Miller). On the other hand, in "New Tango" essay Gustavo Naveira states that it often happens that mediocre dancers, trapped in a crude and sentimentalized way of dancing ... will call their dancing traditional tango. Proliferation of tango styles and self-interest of teachers is criticized on occasion as commercialization of tango; Pablo Verón (see The Tango Lesson) states , Although it fills (tango nuevo) the need of the market because it is thought as a commercial maneuver, it lacks solid bases to be called a "methodology" and he adds To produce teachers that in turn will create other teachers and,therefore, increase the public more and more. But it is clearly seen that it does not produce better dancers. Before there were more personal styles because there was less commerce...

Well, "it often happens that mediocre dancers, trapped in a crude and sentimentalized way of dancing ... will call their dancing traditional tango" - does sound like pretty "gossipy" trash talk to me. I don't really see how such talk is related to the commercialization of tango. Tango has had people trash talking each others way of dancing it since it's very beginnings. Also, it does not seem like the references you make were drawing a conclusion that a commercialization of tango is the source of this tension (by definition, tango has been commercialized since the first person who accepted payment for teaching, DJing, running a milonga, running a dance competition for prize money, all of which happened long before Naviera was born). So the conclusion that commercialization of tango is the cause of the tension between ways of dancing it seems to be original research on your part and not anything that was proven in the cited references. So it seems to me that the proposed text is bit short sighted and assigns undue influence to a couple of trash talking contemporary figures. They are just the latest in a long string of people arguing over what tango is and how it should be danced. How about changing your proposed text to give a more well rounded history of the in-fighting between tango styles (which really started at tango's inception with neighborhood gangs of teens and young adults posturing with each other over who's tango was better and more authentic)? 97.120.12.187 (talk) 03:51, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Very neatly put. I agree that tango has been commercialized since the first song was published, and that the modern paragraph had problems with original research and synthesis. Binksternet (talk) 04:11, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Argentine and Uruguayan Tango

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango_argentino

I have tried to edit the page on Argentine Tango twice and my edit was erased.

I was trying to correct the information on the origins of tango to include that the so call Argentine tango belongs to Uruguay as much as to Argentina and that tango has been recognized by UNESCO as belonging to both countries. My entries were deleted twice. I also included links to the UNESCO site.

If you are committed to a true encyclopedia you should allow the truth to be 'complete.'

Thank you.

Julian Gentili — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daigorosan1000 (talk • contribs) 03:46, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Daigorosan1000, in the second revert, the editor used a shorthand message "CVIO?", indicating that your added text is likely a copyright violation. You can't just copy and paste a paragraph from another site into wikipedia without permission. You can, however, write your own text and cite UNESCO as a supporting reference. Pro crast in a tor (talk) 12:40, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Osvaldo Zotto died Jan 8, 2010

The name of Osvaldo Zotto is followed by a small cross †, does this try to indicate the fact that he died? (He did die on Jan 8, 2010) Other names of people who died in this article are followed by the word "deseased" in between parenthesis. Should we delete the cross and add the word (deseased)? SAZATS (talk) 04:23, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

cabaceo

I had quite a laugh at the picture that is currently in place. I mean, LAUGH! Thanks! I know Homer and Christina has lots of fans, but, really... Waiting to see if anyone wants to discuss this. Steve Pastor (talk) 17:10, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

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Article should be renamed Argentine Tango

Tango in Argentine Tango should have a capitalised T. As that Tango is a noun. Nouns should remain capitalised. As that it is the Tango belonging to the Argentines NaThang0P (talk) 22:58, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Add a tango events directory external link

I feel there should be an external link to a directory of tango events in the world for those interested in tango dancing.

My suggestion is for www.tangopolix.com to be used here as it is the most complete, comprehensive and modern tango events directory online.

Tangopolix (talk) 22:26, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

We usually don't add event listings to Wikipedia articles. One reason is that the external links usually are reserved for resources where you can learn more facts about a concept, not for finding activities related to the entry. Another reason is that there are plenty of commercial and non-commercial actors, such as yourself, who would be competing to be the one which is linked to. There's plenty of forums for advertising your site, but Wikipedia is not meant for that purpose. /Salsero (talk) 14:53, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

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African/black origins?

Does Argentine tango have African or black origins, as several articles published since at least 2006 indicate? If so, why aren't the words "African" or "black" contained in the current version of this article? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 05:43, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Canyengue?

Canyengue currently redirects to this page but without any explicit mention (potentially, Tango#Tango canyengue [unsourced] might have been a more informative redirect?). According to es:Canyengue, the word itself is etymologically related to candombe, which is mentioned here, and derives from the Kimbundu language of Angola. 86.132.54.104 (talk) 16:45, 1 June 2022 (UTC)