Talk:Archie McKellar/GA3

GA Review

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Reviewer: Pyrotec (talk · contribs) 14:39, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will review. Pyrotec (talk) 14:39, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Initial comments

I've now completed a quick initial read of the article from start to final and it appears to be be well referenced, but I've not checked any of the references, nor carried out copyright checks, etc, for the two illustrations.

In general the article appears to be about GA-level, but I suspect some work will be needed to bring it up to standard, for instance I've corrected few spelling mistakes whilst reading through the article.

I'm now going to work my way through the article starting at the Early life and RAF career section and finishing with the lead. Pyrotec (talk) 15:33, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Early life and RAF career -

I have a question about the section title (well part of it): is this section really is about his RAF career (its certainly about his early life), or its it just a summary of (some of) his RAF career? For instance, some of the material is repeated later in the Second World War in more detail (such as 602 Squadron), but some is not; and some of the material that appears later is not summarised here (such as 605 Squadron, death, victories), so is it intended to be a summary/overview?

It wasn't intended as an overview. I can see what you mean. I think its sorted now. Dapi89 (talk) 13:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The first paragraph is unnecessarily vague:

it states "McKellar was born in Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland, the son of John and Margaret McKellar, of Bearsden, Dunbartonshire and was then educated at Shawlands Academy in the southside of Glasgow. .....", without stating when he was born. I know that is given in the infobox and in the lead, but both of those are "summaries" and neither should contain material that does not appear in the body of the article.

Better now? Dapi89 (talk) 13:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks. Pyrotec (talk) 17:16, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Again, he is only called "McKellar", as far as I can see, the body of the article does not give his Christian names at all.

Ok. Dapi89 (talk) 13:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it to Archibald Ashmore ("Archie") McKellar as that is what I was expecting to "see". Note: I was not really asking for "Archie" to be removed, just for it to be clarified - his full name was Archibald Ashmore McKellar. Pyrotec (talk) 17:15, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Scottish Flying Club is mentioned in so far as "He joined (it) ... and quickly acquired a pilot's licence" but no further details are given of how and why he was able to join it. I'd though that these details aught to be in the article as they are very relevant to the story.

There is limited info. None of the sources say anything about his motivation for joining it. Dapi89 (talk) 13:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've added some. It was based at Renfrew airfield, so Archie could have walked there and back from Paisley along the Renfrew Road. Pyrotec (talk) 17:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Much of the material in the final two paragraphs appears to be direct quotations. It's not shown in the article as direct quotations, but it is cited. If this is the case, then there are possible copyright violations to be considered and checked for.

Much of it was was. I've changed the wording. Dapi89 (talk) 13:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done Much better now. Pyrotec (talk) 20:02, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Second World War -
- 602 Squadron -

Note: I fixed a typo and merged two "paragraphs" that were not really separate paragraphs.

I've raised a question about the purpose of the Early life and RAF career that needs to be resolved:

The first section has a paragraph "His flying skills earned him the attention of Lord Hamilton Air Officer Commanding (AOC) No. 602 Squadron AAF. In 1936 he was commissioned as a Pilot Officer and on 8 May 1938 was promoted to Flying Officer. The unit converted onto Spitfires in May 1939 and was deployed to RAF Grangemouth on 6 October 1939 and then to RAF Drem a month later.[5]" that is almost repeated here, but with twice as much detail, i.e.: "McKellar commissioned into the Auxiliary Air Force (AAF) as a Pilot Officer on 8 November 1936, joining No. 602 (City of Glasgow) Squadron RAF.[9] Archie's comrades nicknamed him "Shrimp" owing to his short—Five foot three inch—stature.[10] Based at RAF Abbotsinch near Paisley, the squadron operated the Hawker Hind light bomber. The members of squadron—both pilots and ground staff—were reservists and completed their service on a part-time basis, in the evenings, weekends and an annual two–week summer camp. With the approach of war, the squadron converted to a fighter role and re-equipped with the Supermarine Spitfire. It mobilised on the outbreak of war at RAF Drem and was charged with defending Edinburgh and the shipping area around the Firth of Forth.".
The material that is in (what was original the second paragraph) the second half of the first paragraph (as I merged them) is unreferenced.

Sorted. Dapi89 (talk) 13:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Shrimp item should be removed as not one single reference can be found after that one source--of calling him shrimp. That was only at the very very beginning of his RAF career, and quickly eliminated from description of him. His short stature was mentioned all along, but shrimp would have landed all but those few early friends on the shat list.Bugatti35racer (talk) 03:47, 4 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

- 605 Squadron -

Looks OK.

- Death -

Note: ref 33, links to the London Gazette and it described as pages 33-34. McKellar appears to be named on page 34, but the link goes to page 33, so it needs a minor tweak.

Done. Dapi89 (talk) 13:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

....stopping for now. To be continued. Pyrotec (talk) 18:01, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, looks OK.

List of victories -

The first sentence has a link to Alfred Price and a reference (36) linking to "Price 1996, p. 32". The Alfred Price in the wikilink died in 1907, so its mostly probably the wrong Alfred Price.
In the table, Victories 1 and 2 are unreferenced. Since they claim "First enemy aircraft shot down into British waters." and "First enemy aircraft to fall on British soil since 1918." they aught to be verifiable via a reference, or references.

....stopping for now. To be continued. Pyrotec (talk) 23:01, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Victories 10–12 and 13 both have a DFC*[20], having read the article I assume that the "*" is to indicate a posthumous award, but I would have expected a note or comment in the table to explain their presence.

Done. Dapi89 (talk) 13:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Lead -

This should both introduce the topic of the article and summarise the main points given in the body of the article, as per WP:Lead, which in general it manages to achieve, although the lead is rather "thin". However:

The Lead states "In 1936, aged 24, he decided to seek adventure and joined the RAF and began pilot training.", well he might have joined the RAF to seek adventure but the Early life section makes in clear that he joined the Scottish Flying Club ..... (which is not mentioned in the Lead) .... and quickly acquired a pilot's licence. By the time he began his military career began, Archie was a very experienced pilot which .... and this appears to contradict what is in the Lead, but it might just be a problem of "interpretation".
His time in 602 Squadron gets half as much text as that given to 605 Squadron and almost as much as his death does in the body of the article, but 602 Squadron does not get a mention by name.
His time with the RAF in Scotland is somewhat dismissively referred to as "over Northern Britain".

Better? Dapi89 (talk) 13:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

At this point I'm putting the review "On Hold". The article should have GA-status by the end of this review, but there are a few minor points that need to be addressed before then. Pyrotec (talk) 12:24, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Overall summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Has an appropriate reference section:

B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Having reviewed the changes made to the article since it was placed "On Hold", I'm now satisfied that the article is compliant, so I'm awarding GA-status. Congratulations on achieving GA. Pyrotec (talk) 21:39, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]