Talk:Arabic script/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Arabic script. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Move

Please move ISO 15924:Arab to Arabic script, which redirects here. Bogdan Nagachop (talk) 13:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Done. — kwami (talk) 14:07, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Flickr-Altaic People.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Galleries

Is it just me, or are all the hundreds of images in the galleries on this article way over the top and not particularly useful for readers? In my opinion, the galleries need to be seriously pruned or deleted altogether, and replaced by appropriate links to Commons. BabelStone (talk) 23:16, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Galaries

The idea is to show the wealthy heritage of the Arabic language and script, besides the variety of ways of writing arabic scripts even in the same region and how to write non-Arabic language letters in Arabic script. I think it is astonishing to anyone that knows the Arabic script to see all these demonstrations. Actually the idea of the page is to demonstarate the variety. --Ashashyou (talk) 15:20, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that's way over the top. You need to find a dozen, at most, images that will demonstrate the breadth of caligraphic styles, media, time periods, etc, put them in as regular images and remove the rest of those images and the multiple galleries from the page. The glut of images makes the article nearly unreadable, not to mention painfully slow to load on all but the most modern broadband connections. Van Isaac_WS^contribs 04:54, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Probably should have mentioned it, but I'll do it myself after this weekend if you don't, because it's really quite obnoxious right now. Van Isaac_WS^contribs 05:29, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Gallery problems again

The state of the article before Ashashyou started making his edits had only 15 images. Wikipedia articles are not supposed to be image galleries, and can be deleted if they appear to have no function other than serving as an image gallery... AnonMoos (talk) 07:18, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Done I deleted them all. Van Isaac_WS^contribs 08:26, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I thought you mentioned "a dozen, at most, images that will demonstrate the breadth of caligraphic styles, media, time periods, etc, put them in as regular images and remove the rest of those images". I see that you have removed "All the gallaries" without looking for the useful ones. You have ignored the "HUGE" effort made to improve this page by putting photos that are Open source that would serve anyone studying or interested in Arabic Alphabet script. I have no time now to select images to put again in the article to serve the purpose of wikipedia as a "free-content encyclopedia project based on an openly editable model", "one of the largest reference websites" (so needs most if not all these images), "written collaboratively", also from the Pillers of wikipedia "written from a neutral point of view", "Editors should interact with each other in a respectful and civil manner".--Ashashyou (talk) 12:58, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I believe in good faith, i think you did not understand the value of all those Photos (made by HUGE Effort). However, maybe because you donot know Semitic or Oriental languages (despite the language you know).

Thanks for your trial of improving the page. I think it need the gallerias as in Cyrillic alphabets page (having alphabets demonstrated). Also the Arabic scripts are some times used in Art so the photos are needed to demonstrate the Artistic view of the Letters as other Art-Orirnted pages as Taos art colony, Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, Musée du Louvre and other pages that contain many "PURPOSEFUL" photos or galleries as Fiat, Fiat 128, Ford Motor Company and other many pages that contain many "PURPOSEFUL" photos and no one made suggestions to delete all the entire gallery.

I will work on the gallery in the future.--Ashashyou (talk) 12:57, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

The Victorian Arabic English Statement

I, able to read the Arabic Script (but not any language commonly written in it), cannot find any information to back up the claim about scholars in the Victorian British Empire writing anything in the English Language in the Arabic Script. At first I assumed it must be true, due to reading about Arabic Afrikaans, but I found nothing about, let alone in, such an "Arabic English." Thus, I suggest that statement be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 自教育 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC) I agree with the above statement. Perhaps we should look who wrote this statement & ask him to provide the source. I find this not strange for the same reason (i.e. existance of Arabic Afrikaans) which might have targeted the Indians (both Muslims & Non-Muslims) in South Africa at that time. So i think the English in Arabic script would be found in Indian documents during the Victorian Era ( I made some effort in this direction but with no success so far). I think we need to put Citation needed tag and not deleting the whole statement.--Ashashyou (talk) 22:02, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Sources

Alphabet

http://www.pri.org/stories/2013-06-25/some-turks-reconsidering-arabic-connection-turkish-language

http://www.gaspirali.com/osmanli/

http://books.google.com/books?id=zpwCAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Title Encyclopedia of Arabic Language and Linguistics: A-Ed Volume 1 of Encyclopedia of Arabic Language and Linguistics, Kees Versteegh Author Kees Versteegh Editors Kees Versteegh, Mushira Eid Edition illustrated Publisher Brill, 2005 Original from the University of Michigan Digitized May 2, 2008 ISBN 9004144730, 9789004144736 Length 671 pages

Encyclopedia of Arabic Language and Linguistics: A-Ed. By Kees Versteegh

http://books.google.com/books?id=SuNiAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA

Chinese in Jawi

http://kswritingsystemresearchblog.blogspot.com/2007/04/i-went-on-short-trip-to-johor-state.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Melaka-Nam-Fatt-2332.jpg

Xiaoerjing

http://baike.sogou.com/v10997589.htm

http://tech.qianlong.com/28/2003-7-8/223@937526.htm http://www.2muslim.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=231271

http://pic.baike.soso.com/p/20120426/ext-20120426145704-415320909.jpg http://baike.sogou.com/PicBooklet.v?relateImageGroupIds=&lemmaId=10997589&picUrls=%2Fp%2F20120426%2F20120426144235-633956042.jpg,%2Fp%2F20120426%2F20120426145704-415320909.jpg&type=1#simple_0 http://baike.sogou.com/PicBooklet.v?relateImageGroupIds=&lemmaId=10997589&picUrls=%2Fp%2F20120426%2F20120426145704-415320909.jpg,%2Fp%2F20120426%2F20120426144235-633956042.jpg&type=1#simple_0

http://baike.baidu.com/view/2201396.htm http://www.labtud.com/article-1653277-1.html http://m.wangchao.net.cn/baike/tcdetail_1482874.html http://www.2muslim.com/home.php?mod=space&uid=54127&do=blog&id=63336 http://www.hotwikipedia.us/Wikipedia-1074606-Hui-small-by.html

小經原文：　　مُو شٍ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمْ شُوَ: ثِيُوَ ثِي عِلْمَ ڞٌ يَوْ لاً دَوْ فٌ مُ. شٍژٍ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ كُو شُو لِيَوْ: ﯖِيَا ژُوَ نِي ثِيُوَ عِلْمَ ﯖِ لُو جٌ ﯖِيًا يُو ﯖِ دَوْ خُوَ خَيْ قِي چُو لِيَوْ نِي ﯖِ سْخِوْ، نِي يَوْ ثِيَانْ ﯖٍ يِ كِيهَ بًا فَا طٌ قُو تَا ثِيُوَ عِلْمَ کِ، يٍ وِي زَيْ نِي خُوَ جَنَّة جٌ ﯖِيًا مُوَ يُو بِيهَ ﯖِ لُو، جِ يُو ثِيُوَ ثِي عِلْمَ ﯖِ لُو.

مُو شٍ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمْ شُوَ: ثِيُوَ ثِي عِلْمَ ڞٌ يَوْ لاً دَوْ فٌ مُ. شٍژٍ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ كُو شُو لِيَوْ: ﯖِيَا ژُوَ نِي ثِيُوَ عِلْمَ ﯖِ لُو جٌ ﯖِيًا يُو ﯖِ دَوْ خُوَ خَيْ قِي چُو لِيَوْ نِي ﯖِ سْخِوْ، نِي يَوْ ثِيَانْ ﯖٍ يِ كِيهَ بًا فَا طٌ قُو تَا ثِيُوَ عِلْمَ کِ، يٍ وِي زَيْ نِي خُوَ جَنَّة جٌ ﯖِيًا مُوَ يُو بِيهَ ﯖِ لُو، جِ يُو ثِيُوَ ثِي عِلْمَ ﯖِ لُو.

穆圣（原主福安之）说：“学习知识，从摇篮到坟墓。”穆圣（原主福安之）又说：“假如在你求知的路上有几道火海隔断了你，这时你要想尽一切办法来通过火海继续去求知，因为在你和天堂之间没有别的路，只有学习知识的路。”

http://baike.baidu.com/view/2201396.htm http://www.baike.com/wiki/回族小经 http://www.labtud.com/article-1653277-1.html http://www.somdom.com/arabic/t7104 http://m.wangchao.net.cn/baike/tcdetail_1482874.html

方言音譯：穆聖賽來拉乎阿來一黑哇賽來木說：學習爾林從搖籃到墳墓。聖人阿來一黑賽倆木擴說遼：假如在你學習爾林幾路中間有幾道火海，隔出遼你幾司侯，你要想盡一切辦法通過它學爾林其，因為在你霍占乃提中間牟有別幾路，只有學習爾林幾路。

http://www.labtud.com/article-1653277-1.html 普通話翻譯：穆聖（願主福安之）說：「學習知識，從搖籃到墳墓。」聖人（祝他平安）又說：「假如在你求知的路上有幾道火海隔斷了你，這時你要想盡一切辦法來通過火海繼續去求知，因為在你和天堂之間沒有別的路，只有學習知識的路。??

小儿经

http://www.baike.com/wiki/小儿经

http://tupian.baike.com/s/小儿经/xgtupian/1/0?target=a3_53_96_01300000353865129681968647057.jpg

http://a0.att.hudong.com/85/00/01300000353865129682007558720_s.jpg http://a3.att.hudong.com/25/90/01300000353865129681908754912_s.jpg http://a2.att.hudong.com/62/00/01300000353865129682000604777_s.jpg

http://huizu.baike.com/article-103523.html http://a4.att.hudong.com/30/95/19300001014890132192951251745.jpg

Rajmaan (talk) 22:04, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Second-most widely used writing system

According to the ref, it is the second-most widely used writing system. Read the first sentence: Arabic alphabet, second most widely used alphabetic writing system in the world (the Latin alphabet is the most widespread).--الدبوني (talk) 13:57, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

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Table

The first thing I would expect in an article like this, after the lead section, would be a nice table or list of all characters in customary order, with their names and usual pronunciations. Now there is only a small, brown image with such a table on the right margin − perhaps an appropriate place for readers reading from right-to-left ;-) but not for readers which are used to read from left-to-right. The brown colour also gives the impression that it is just an illustration. And a real table could have links to separate articles about the characters or to copy-paste the characters individually. Bever (talk) 21:42, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Please editor add this

Pegon alphabet, one of Arabic script written in Javanese language. Also, arabic script is used in Indonesia as sub-national usage. -- Mohamadhzanhari (talk) 07:54, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I mean, add Indonesia in the diagram: Worldwide use of the Arabic script. -- Mohamadhzanhari (talk) 08:01, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Confusing colours on map

On the map showing where Arabic script is used around the world there are four different categories, but the last two - "is official alongside other scripts" and "is official at a sub-national level (China, India) or is a recognized alternative script (Malaysia)" - appear to be in exactly the same shade of green. Although the countries in the last category are identified in the caption, it would surely be less confusing if there were two distinct colours - perhaps they're meant to be distinct, but after peering closely at both the vertical bar on the left and the countries on the map I really can't see any difference at all.213.127.210.95 (talk) 15:05, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Undiscussed page move reverted

Hello. I have reverted an undiscussed page move per a user request. Please hold a move discussion here if a page move is desired. Thank you. Steven Crossin ^{Help resolve disputes!} 23:03, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

compiling stuf from other wiki pages

Text and/or other creative content from Lām_with_bar was copied or moved into Arabic_script. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

probably overkill for three language names? Punjabi, Marwari, Kalami from ݪ page? Irtapil (talk) 15:55, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

New "Letter construction" section

The new "Letter construction" section is completely unsourced and seems to boil down to original research that "these letters look similar". Additionally, it is being written, with placeholders, in the actual article instead of a sandbox, which is disruptive. My questions are Does this section bring any encyclopedic value to the article? and Will any sources be cited? If both of these requirements can't be met, I think the section should be deleted. DRMcCreedy (talk) 19:44, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Origin and development

It's odd there's nothing in this article about the origin of this script, how it was developed and was adopted into widespread use. --Ericjs (talk) 23:20, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

There is a separate article on the history, but this is the tendency of Wikipedia: lists and tables are relatively easy to write and therefore that is what gets written and zealously preserved. Especially where "other" cultures are involved. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 07:25, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Kuryan

The page mentions the usage of Kuryan, an Arabic derived script to write Korean. Are there any online sources that anyone is aware of? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hundil314 (talk • contribs) 01:07, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

I wasn't able to find any sources from a quick google, just more people questioning it and removing it from Wikipedia for being uncited. So I'm working on purging any mention of it. — W.andrea (talk) 02:01, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Do-chashmi he, rising to the right

Or maybe descending to the left? I don't think I've ever seen this in writing. There isn't an explanation that I''m aware of. Does only one language do that with the Arabic script? What is this sloping supposed to convey? YellowAries2010 (talk) 19:56, 23 July 2022 (UTC)