Talk:Arabic coffee/Archive 1

Archive 1

Old discussion

Hi. I'm from Saudi Arabia and I think you perhaps got it mixed a bit. "Gahwa Sada" is for turkish coffee, while "Arabic Coffee" is for turkish coffee. Otherwise great description.

I'm not from Saudi Arabia but did spend 10 yrs growing up there. Saada means plain, as in no sugar, and is used to refer to the arabic coffee (which is very similar to turkish coffee, black and bitter, kind of like an espresso). Arabiya is also simply arabic coffee. The lighter coffee shown in the picture I've always known as Saudi coffee. The serving size is small but refills will keep coming until you give 'the signal' - rocking the cup, which indicates you don't want any more. Delicious! i see your point —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.140.147.161 (talk) 00:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

hi! I think the picture added is not resembling arabic coffee rather than turkish, as the coffee served in most jordan, syria, and lebanon all came from turkey.. and the arabic coffee is lighter in color, without sugar, and in some places as saudi arabia is served with dates.Afas1407 (talk) 21:43, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

If I remember right 'Gahwa saada' means black coffee:

'Gahwa' means coffee
'saada' (or Sawda) means black

and to most people, black coffee is coffee with no milk User:cs1kh

Spelling mistake correction 'Ahwa arabiya' changed to 'Gahwa arabiya' User:cs1kh

The origin of coffee

I am not an expert on coffee and so prefer to leave a comment on the talk page rather than edit the main page. Although it seems the first historical records of coffee production and drinking are in Yemen, the coffee tree Coffea arabica naturally occurs in the wild in Ethiopia, not in Yemen as far as I know... How would it have come to Yemen if it were not useful or used in some way? Presumably it was discovered in Ethiopia and then taken to Yemen and cultivated and marketed and traded? Should that not be mentioned in this article? Can someone who knows more about coffee edit the page or comments on this? Kengele (talk) 04:29, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

The plant is grown in Yemen Abo Yemen✉ 04:03, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

The plant grows in lots of places (now) in the “coffee belt.” But I’m just leaving an exhibit on coffee at the National Museum of Qatar. They also say coffee originated in Eithiopia and from there was introduced to Yemen. 172.58.139.156 (talk) 13:55, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

How do you make it?

How do you make Gahwa? (Arabic Coffee) ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zybez (talk • contribs) 03:47, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

hi ! here is the method I know: first, boil a water, till the water bubbles goes up.Then, add 2.5 arabic coffee-cup of a brown roasted coffee ( the coffee beans is bought green not roasted yet, then you roast it transforming its color into brown not black ) then boil it again and again (every time the bubbles goes up remove it from fire then put it again) and that is why in saudi arabia we said "is the coffee still been cooked ?" ( إلى الحين و القهوة تطبخ ؟ ) not made (( you cooke the coffee but you don't made it in KSA )) but it should not take more than 20 min's. Afas1407 (talk) 21:43, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Read this please. It may help you

I took this from a web site that may be beneficial to you. from [1] and [2].Afas1407 (talk) 22:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The preparation, serving and drinking of gahwa -- Arabian coffee -- are each individual rituals derived from Bedouin hospitality; traditions that are still bound today by the same ceremony and etiquette which have ruled for centuries. According to legend, coffee-drinking began in Arabia almost 12 centuries ago when a goat herder named Khalid noticed that while the afternoon sun made him drowsy, his flock frolicked and gambolled after nibbling at the berries of a certain evergreen bush. The ingenious Khalid ground and boiled the agreeable berries and so invented a phenomenon that has worked its way into the marrow of everyday life. The gahwa ritual (pictured) starts when the host places a set of four coffee pots, called della, next to an open fire. He pours the coffee beans onto a mahmasa, a shallow, long-handled iron pan which he holds just above the flames. He stirs the roasting beans from time to time with a yad al mahmasa, which is attached by a chain to the small pan. When the beans are cooked they are left to cool before being pulverised with a pestle in a mortar called mahbash. When pounding the beans it is necessary to strike the side of the mortar occasionally with the pestle to free the grounds from sticking together. This noise is considered music and the guests should listen carefully and show appreciation of the host's artistic expression. The largest della contains the coffee grounds from previous days, so water is poured into the second largest pot, to which the freshly ground coffee is added and then boiled over the fire. Meanwhile, the host pounds the cardamom seeds, and sometimes a pinch of saffron, in the mahbash. These spices go into the third della which is then filled with the freshly brewed coffee from the second pot and brought to the boil again. Finally the gahwa is poured into the fourth and smallest pot ready to serve. It is always the host's privilege to serve his guests, although a servant may assist by holding the tray of small, china cups without handles. He may pour himself a small cup first in order to taste it, but strict rules of etiquette are observed in the serving order. When only men are present, the most important person in the room is served first. Age takes precedence if there is some doubt as to rank. Until a few years ago men were always served before women, but today that custom is often reversed, particularly if Westerners are among the guests. The cups are only half filled, but guests may have several refills. It is polite to accept an odd number of cups -- one, three or five. When the guest has finished he should jiggle the empty cup from side to side, indicating to the host that he has had sufficient. To refuse the first round is considered not only bad manners but also an insult to the host. Gahwa is never sweetened with sugar. Instead, fresh dates are offered as the standard accompaniment to the aromatic brew. The papery-skinned fingers of fruit contain 55% natural sugar which refresh and sweeten the palate between each sip of gahwa. The proportions of coffee and cardamom in recipes for making gahwa varies considerably from region to region. The Saudia airline offers its passengers a blend made from 25 grams of ground Arabic coffee, 35 grams of crushed cardamom and 1 litre of water. To be served a cup of this unique beverage is more than just refreshment, it is unfailing proof that the guest is still revered and honoured in Saudi Arabia. In offering a cup of gahwa the host is saying Ahlan Wa Sahlan, welcome

Arabic Coffee - Gahwah

Hello i'm a native Saudi and Arabic speaker, and have been around Gahwah (Arabic coffee) my whole life, i hope i can be of help to this article. first of all, this page might help as it sums up most of the basic information on Gahwah: Kuwait Times Website

-I'd like to suggest redirecting from 'gahwah' to here since its the local pronunciation of Arabic Coffee (i searched Kahwa and came up with a different but similar article about an Indian drink)

- Gahwah is basically grounded roasted-coffee beans with cardamum, but the combination of coffee beans with other ingredients is also popular and varies greatly depending on the region and personal preference. Some people would rather replace Cardamum with ground Barley seeds correction: they replace the ground coffee beans with ground Barley (I've never tasted this variation but the old men in the eastern-province villages perfer it because they feel it doesn't promote hypertension as much as Cardamum coffee beans do, i'm not sure if its medically proved though) Some other variations might include spices usually used in local cuisine such as Saffaron or rose water, and some gahwah-specific spices exist and is mixed and sold in small quantities in local shops and supermarkets. (I might be able to take a photo of the gahwah spices if i have any unopened ones.)

- Recently, the cups for Gahwah are more decorated and are made from several materials (glass and ceramic being the most popular, i'll see if i have taken any presentable pictures of those) and are sold in 12-piece packs. gahwah is always paired up with Tea as they are almost always offered together, so shops that sell Gahwah-making tools almost always display it side-by-side with Tea making tools and Tea cups (Biala in Arabic) and tea is offered to guests that do not drink Gahwah and to the younger people they bring along (their children or relatives) as gahwah is too bitter to their taste and high on caffeine.

-Most people consider Gahwah an acquired-taste due to its bitterness, and personally i had no idea why anyone would want to drink something that tasted as awful. but with dates (Especially Eastern-grown palm-tree dates that are extra sweet) it makes perfect sense as the sweetness of the dates levels the bitterness to an acceptable flavor. Nowadays, gahwah drinkers offer home-made sweets or chocolate with gahwah when no dates are available, or when wishing to give the guest more choices to have with their gahwah.

-Gahwah serving manners are almost always strictly followed when in the presence of a guest or in a ceremony or event, but at home it is more at-ease and gahwah drinkers would rather pour for themselves in any cup they have available (even paper cups) it is worth mentioning that with formal gahwah drinking events, it is impolite to pour gahwah to oneself, instead the host of the event or the youngest person in the household should pout it out himself.

-Serving Gahwah in formal events has a hierarchy, Older men before younger men, important persons before the less important. If the ceremony involves separate seating spots (for example wedding receptions) Gahwah is usually poured in a counter-clockwise pattern, first the person to the far right of the seats, and then the one after him, and so on till the last person seated. after that the Gahwaji would go back to the first person served to refill his cup, and resume the circle all over again.

- it is considered highly improper for a younger person to receive gahwah from an older person, and extremely insulting to receive it with the left hand. it is also highly insulting to pour gahwah with the Dallah in the right hand and Cup in the left, and end up offering gahwah with the left hand.

-in less-formal meetings (such as family events or a friends' gathering) it is less restricting and anyone may pour his own gahwah or tea as many times (young-male gatherings tend to be even less formal as to allow self-service to gahwah and tea which are always available at any time)

i'm not sure where to find as much information about gahwah in websites or books for refference, as all this information comes from learning from my grandmother, serving gahwah in several occasions and simply watching things happen in their specific order. my father is also very strict when it comes to gahwah manners so i'm pretty confidant with my information. i'd also like to add that gahwah flavorings and manners may differ from one region to another, i live in the eastern province of Saudi Arabia so insight from other places might be educational to me and wikipedia articles. --Ren (talk) 11:02, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

two kind of Arabic coffee !

there are two kind of Arabic coffee

1. that made in Blad al sham coffee 2. Bedouin coffee —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mewoone (talk • contribs) 16:36, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I edited to make these two methods distinct, pulling information found in the Talk section as well as reviewing online coffee recipes.Dan Bollinger (talk) 16:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Types of Arabic coffee? Clarification, please

In the infobox image are shown 3 coffees which are described as "qahwa shāqra, qahwa benih, and qahwa sādah" ---- where does this classification come from? For one thing, the word "benih" is not an Arabic word. For another, the phrase qahwa sādah is normally used to describe unsweetened Turkish coffee, as opposed to qahwa ziyada (Turkish coffee with "extra sugar")or qahwa mazbūt (Turkish coffee with sugar "just right"). Confusing matters further, the article then speaks about qahwa sādah being served in "tiny cups", although the image of qahwa sādah is not in a "tiny cup". Is it possible that this article is confusing Arabic coffee with Turkish coffee? The manner of preparation, the way of serving ("The portions are small, covering just the bottom of the cup") all indicate the coffee that is prepared and served in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf nations, but not elsewhere in the Arab world. This watery, unsweetened, light yellowish-brown brew is what should be called "Arabic coffee" and is what is described in this article. I think it is misleading to throw in a picture of Turkish coffee (which is labelled "qahwah benih"-- whatever benih means). In any case, I think the article needs to be re-thought in terms of classification of coffee beverages consumed in the Arab world.--Akhooha (talk) 00:36, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

I am an Arab but I hope that I will not be Turkish by the end. If the coffee is Arabic origin from Yemen and the Turks inherit it. Turkish culture and Turkish language are very influenced by Arab culture and Arabic. Even the word coffee in Turkish "kahve" from Arabic. Arabic coffee varies in types of preparation. You've said the phrase qahwa sādah is normally used to describe unsweetened Turkish coffee, unreasonable! if the Turks say it is Arabic. is called in Turkey (Mırra If you do not speak Turkish you can translate it) the name is derived from Arabic; mura meaning bitter. benih or bunniyya is not an Arabic word well relative adjective (nisba) composed of بُنّ (bunn, “coffee”) + ـِيّ (-iyy) fem بُنِّيَّة (bunniyya) brown, coffee-colored [3] Brown coffee is famous in Palestine and is similar to Turkish coffee, but the former is spiced with cardamom and is usually unsweetened (There are who prefer it sweetened)[4], which made you say it is Turkish coffee (This type of Arabic coffee is the most drinkable in Palestine (not Turkish but Arabic coffee but the method of preparation differs from traditional)). You are one of the people who consider everything from the Gulf States to be a genuine Arab, this picture of Arabic coffee from Lebanon, although Turkish coffee is also famous in Lebanon, Arabic coffee has enabled it. There are different versions of Arabic coffee, but the traditional version includes cardamom (which you mean). The density of the coffee depends on the taste in general, some prefer heavy and others prefer light, and with or without cardamom. If you can read Arabic you will understand.--Canbel (talk) 23:23, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Can I put this picture?

إلى الأخ Canbel. أشكرك على ردك السريع. Thank you for your reply. I see also from the recent changes that you have made to the article that you have dealt with what were the major bones of my contention with the characterization of Arabic coffee; that is to say that you have recognized the differences in serving methods and preparation, whereas before your changes, there was the impression that the serving methods of the Arabian Peninsula were peculiar to ALL types of Arabic coffee. Since I am NOT one of those who think that Peninsula Arabs are the only true Arabs, I had taken exception to this. Now you have fixed the issue and I thank you. As for "qahwa benih", if by "benih" you mean the word "بُنِّيَّة" then I think "buniyya" is a better transliteration than "benih". Thank you again for your constructive editing. Akhooha (talk) 18:06, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

شكرًا but I am a girl, are you convinced with the preparation of Arabic coffee and coffee beans.--Canbel (talk) 18:41, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

إلى الأخت Canbel. تحياتي. As for your question about the infobox picture: I see that you have now put in an image of a dallah. That makes 4 pictures of dallahs in the article (although what is labelled "Palestinian dallah" is not a dallah; it is really just a plastic serving thermos and is not something that you could actually brew the coffee in). I think this is an over-emphasis on Peninsula Arab coffee preparation. What about kanaka (also called rikwah or jezwah) (كنكة ، ركوة ، جزوة) ?? Also, if you're going to bring up qahwah buniyya in the caption of an image, you should explain the term in the article. مع خالص التقدير. Akhooha (talk) 16:44, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

تحياتي لك ايضا أخي الكريم. Don't worry I still have a lot of work on the article :).--Canbel (talk) 02:58, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Akhooha (do not remove this notation again) like you threatening me. You have no contributions in Wikipedia except Arabic coffee and Arabic tea articles, have you been hired to monitor the articles by the Wikimedia Foundation?. You had to tell me why you put it. Ah--Canbel (talk) 18:55, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

The notation points out that which is obvious: that the reference immediately placed after a statement does not back up the statement made in the article. One does not have to specifically point out what is lacking in the reference. And one does not remove those notations unless they had been improperly placed. If you felt threatened, then you are misinterpreting the advice not to remove the notations. As for my contributions to WP, they are a bit more than Arabic Coffee and Arabic Tea; 3191 edits and 48 articles created in the English Wikipedia since 2013 and 969 edits and 27 articles created in the Arabic Wikipedia (under usernames of Akhooha and أخوها) since 2013. In any case, my "statistics" (as well as yours) are really irrelevant to the point being discussed. If you make a statement, and back it up with a reference which has nothing at all to do with that statement, you should expect that someone down the line will append your reference with the notation . Thank you for your attention and understanding. Akhooha (talk) 20:51, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

@NeilN: Please can you look at this, I did not understand him, are the sources put on it incorrect?.--Canbel (talk) 02:15, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

@Canbel and Akhooha: There were three "not in citation given" tags in the article. I have made two edits. The first removed text that was copied from the source almost word for word. Plus neither source (a blog and a high school essay) is what we consider a reliable source. The second edit changed numbers to reflect what the sources actually do say. As for the third tag, I cannot see where the given source (also a blog) verifies "It is also offered at most social events like weddings and funerals". --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:49, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Neil, Thank you.--Canbel (talk) 03:10, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

So, which is it? One cup or three cups? (and insulting the guest by holding cup in left hand)

Under the section "Served", is the statement "The most common practice is to drink only one cup". Two lines further down in the section "Customs" is the statement "the custom is to drink three cups". Neither of the references given for either the one-cup claim or the three-cup claim back up the statements. --Akhooha (talk) 19:20, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

There is no difference if it is a cup or three, it is an expressive video of selling coffee in the Levantine souqs. It is one of the ways to offer Arabic coffee in the Levant.

• Most Arabs would consider it an insult to hold the cup in the left hand.

--No comment!!.--Sarah Canbel (talk) 02:31, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

It may, in fact, not make a difference if it is one or three. You have missed the point. In case you were unaware of it, the phrase "most common practice" means a "custom". So when you say "The most common practice is to drink only one cup" and follow it up by saying "the custom is to drink three cups", you are contradicting yourself.

And yes, most Arabs would consider it an insult to hold the cup in the left hand. It seems ridiculous to give a reference for what should be commonly known, but here it is: Al-Omari, Jehad (2008). Understanding the Arab Culture, 2nd Edition: A practical cross-cultural guide to working in the Arab world. Little, Brown Book Group. p. 91. ISBN 978-1-84803-646-8.. Because it could cause offense to many, I am re-removing the video showing coffee being poured into a cup held in the left hand. See also native Saudi Ren's comment above in the section (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arabic_coffee#Arabic_Coffee_-_Gahwah Arabic coffee - Gahwah): "it is also highly insulting to pour gahwah with the Dallah in the right hand and Cup in the left"

--Akhooha (talk) 02:59, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

The Arab world is divided into several regions of the Arabian Peninsula, Levant, Mesopotamia, the Maghreb. Therefore, in each region there are differences in understanding movements, dialects and a difference in the culture system.--Sarah Canbel (talk) 23:58, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure I see where the source says holding the cup in your left hand when you pour coffee would be offensive to everybody who watches. It says you have to accept it with your right hand when offered, not that no left hand may ever touch a coffee cup (there's no indication any guest will drink that coffee; he may just as well be pouring for himself). It also only speaks about Bedouins; it's conceivable that customs in the levant differ. Maybe in my culture it's insulting to hold a cup of coffee in the right hand; should I then be able to demand the removal of all images of coffee cups held in the right hand from Wikipedia? Huon (talk) 01:29, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your input, Huon. The source given applies to "the Arab world" and not just to Bedouins. It states that is "an old tradition dating back to the desert" and does not imply that it remains current in the desert only. --Akhooha (talk) 01:44, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

This discussion has been moved for arbitration to Wikipedia:Third opinion--Akhooha (talk) 02:06, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@Akhooha: I've declined your 3O request. A third editor weighed in so this discussion is not eligible, and it likely wouldn't be accepted at the dispute resolution noticeboard also as discussion has only been occurring for 24 hours. Side note, content disputes are mediation not arbitration. This has been relatively civil so far. ;] Rhinopias (talk) 02:24, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@Akhooha: Can you please give a short quote of the relevant content? I only see a single mention of coffee and use of a specific hand, in the second part of a section entitled "Sampling Arabic coffee". That paragraph starts with "To the Bedouin Arab, coffee is..." - it clearly and explicitly refers to Bedouin Arabs only. About the use of a specific hand it says: "Traditionally, you have to accept the first cup, and you must always take it with the right hand." I see nothing there about which hand to use when pouring for oneself, nothing about non-Bedouin Arabs. Huon (talk) 02:36, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't know what reference you're looking at, but the one I'm referring to is one I have mentioned previously. It is this reference: Al-Omari, Jehad (2008). Understanding the Arab Culture, 2nd Edition: A practical cross-cultural guide to working in the Arab world. Little, Brown Book Group. p. 91. ISBN 978-1-84803-646-8.. If you go to that link, there is no section entitled "Sampling Arabic Coffee" and no explicit reference to Bedouin Arabs, so I am mystified about what reference you're looking at. (In case the link I have given you does not work ( I just checked, and it is working now), the relevant quote is "...in the Arab world it is considered bad manners to give or receive things using your left hand ...")Thanks for your attention.Akhooha (talk) 02:59, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

So that's not about coffee, and it's not about being insulted by someone holding the coffee cup in his left hand while pouring, but only about giving or receiving. What the book actually says about coffee is this (p. 100). So I don't see why the mere act of someone holding the cup in his left while pouring coffee should be considered insulting to onlookers - we're not that person's guests, and there's no indication that he's about to give the coffee to anybody with his left hand, much less to our readers. Huon (talk) 03:55, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your input, Huon. It's really all about the uncleanness of the left hand, whether you're receiving with it, using it to give or serve something to someone else, or holding your own cup with your left hand. However, I will bow to your superior logic and your superior knowledge of Middle Eastern culture. Akhooha (talk) 03:00, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

"in the Arabian Peninsula, Arabic coffee is roasted in such a way that the coffee is almost clear"

Can this be clarified?

"...in the Arabian Peninsula, Arabic coffee is roasted in such a way that the coffee is almost clear."

173.88.246.138 (talk) 10:38, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

It absolutely is not served in such a manner.