Talk:Anton Rubinstein

Health and medical condition

Did Rubinstein suffer from Ptosis? Most images of him display very drooped eyelids. Also, did he suffer from Strabismus? Such images also show his eyes to squint diagonally upwards. Any proper insight would be helpful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.224.133 (talk) 16:23, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Comments

The second movement from Anton Rubinstein's Piano Concerto no. 2 in F major, op. 35 is really great and I've been looking on the web for any comments on it --I don't seem to have been able to spot any so far. At around the 5 to 6th minute it has a romantic melody, very nice and very lyrical, that lasts only for just a little. It's such pieces, short élans of lyricism and beauty within musical pieces that are like little islands in the middle of the ocean and that, because of this, sound even mystical --another one, I recollect, in Mozart's last string quartets (Quator en ré mineur K421, second movement Menuetto [Allegretto]).--Wikichris 14:30, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I deleted this sentence from the biographical information: However, Rubinstein did not practice any religion at all (except for pantheism late in his life), and so anti-semitism could not apply (at least in any type of "religious" sense). It is almost outlandish to claim that anti-semitism was practiced only on a religious basis. --Maxn 17:22, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Composer project review

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This is a B-class article, but its composer-related content is superficial, and could use expansion. My full review is on the comments page; questions and comments should be left here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 16:53, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Melody in F picture

I removed this because it was not in fact as stated the cover of Rubinstein's Melody in F, but the cover of some other work (a waltz in fact, whereas the Melody is in duple time) by another composer. --Smerus (talk) 14:01, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Rubinstein and Liszt

What is the status of the story that Liszt was unkind to Rubinstein in Vienna 1846? It is not mentioned in Walker's 3-volume biography of Liszt, who does mention earlier (Paris 1840) and later (Weimar and Rotterdam) encounters, where Liszt's favorable disposition towards Rubinstein is clear. In 1840, Liszt reportedly predicted a brilliant career for the boy Rubinstein and from 1854 on Rubinstein was a regular guest in Liszt's home, although their musical tastes differed. Zwart (talk) 11:30, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

The story appears to come from Schonberg. Actually the article as a whole is rather too heavily dependent on Schonberg and Sachs, and I think needs extensive rewriting with some more scholarly references.--Smerus (talk) 15:14, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Liszt did not meet Rubinstein in Paris in 1840. Liszt was on a tour of the British Isles at that time and wasn't in Paris at all. It seems that Liszt first heard Rubinstein in mid-August 1841. The date is unknown, but a letter from Marie von Cettriz (wife of General von Cettriz) to her step-daughter, written in Nonnenwerth and dated 15th August 1841, describes events with Liszt of recent days, and therefore putting Liszt in Nonnenwerth at that time. Her next letter, dated 26th August 1841 and again from Nonnenwerth, says, "Liszt was expected back. We were looking forward to seeing him again and hoping he would have a lot to tell us about what he had been doing. He got here at 1pm and soon came round cheerfully to report to us about Ems and the baths. He had heard the little Russian boy Rubinstein play, and described him as truly remarkable and the greatest of all the child prodigies he had heard..." So this would seem to date Liszt's having heard Rubinstein to mid-August 1841, and to place it at or near Ems.

As for Liszt's being unkind to Rubinstein, this isn't a fair picture. In his autobiography, Rubinstein wrote:

"In 1846 I went to Vienna because that city was one of the principal music centres in Europe, and there too lived Liszt, the king of musicians, on whose help and protection I relied. These hopes, however, were at first dashed by the cold and distant manner with which he received me, bidding me remember that a talented man must win the goal of his ambition by his own unassisted efforts. This estranged me from him [...] It was now two months since I had called on Liszt. My prolonged absence had at last reminded him of my existence. He took it into his head to pay me a visit, and one day he made his way up to my attic accompanied by his usual retinue. The first sight of my quarters seemed to shock the whole party, more especially Liszt himself, who during his sojourn in Moscow had visited my family and knew our style of living. He showed however much tact and delicacy, and in the most friendly manner asked me to dine with him on the same day - a most welcome invitation since the pangs of hunger had been gnawing at me for several days. After this I was always on good terms with Liszt."

Liszt's generosity towards and willingness to help other artists, both financially and artistically, was legendary and unparalleled. Liszt's extremely high opinion of Rubinstein is also well-documented over many decades. Much more likely therefore, regarding the Vienna meeting, is that Rubinstein - aged all of 16, let's remember - presented himself to Liszt slightly clumsily and perhaps giving Liszt the impression that he expected Liszt to open doors and smooth his path for him. Liszt's own father had died when Liszt was 15, and Liszt supported himself and his mother from that point on, living and teaching in Paris. Liszt liked people who worked hard for themselves and didn't simply rely on others, and perhaps wished Rubinstein to learn a similar sense of self-support. But equally clearly, Liszt did not forget about Rubinstein, visiting him as described above, and doing much else to help him (e.g. conducting the first performance of his opera "The Siberian Hunters", welcoming him any time to his home in Weimar, dedicating two of his most important and forward-thinking piano works to Rubinstein, and always having nothing but the highest praise for him in correspondence and conversation with others).

80.6.233.241 (talk) 14:51, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Sources

Part of the problem with this article is its extreme dependence on Schonberg and Sachs for references - chatty but not very scholarly and often oriented to praise rather than analysis. And Taylor is very dull. Needs input from Grove, and surely Taruskin must have something worth quoting?--Smerus (talk) 06:09, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Better late than never on a response to this, right? Taylor is truly very dull, thus hard to wade through but unfortunately the only detailed source available in English. Taruskin has little, if anything, to say about Rubinstein. (Heavens, the man can barely stand Tchaikovsky and places much more emphasis on Stravinsky and The Five in the writings I've seen.) Schonberg and Sachs were the only sources available at the time I last worked on this article extensively. Eventually, I might revamp it using info from Taylor and take another look through Grove at that time but that is a long-term possibility, not one for the immediate present. However, Wikipedia is supposed to be the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, for better or worse, and not simply carp about. Hint, hint. On a positive note, the last time we had this run-around was on Tchaikovsky and that resulted in an infinitely better article (with a decent Music section—finally) so please take my aside with a grain of salt and I'll take your comment as potential food for thought. Jonyungk (talk) 18:45, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Anton Rubinstein/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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;Composers Project Assessment of Anton Rubinstein: 2024-11-25 This is an assessment of article Anton Rubinstein by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano. If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down. Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status. Origins/family background/studies Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described? ok Early career Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? No personal details: wife? children? Mature career Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? No personal details: wife? children? Was Tchaikovsky a student of his? short shrift to composing List(s) of works Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article. ok Critical appreciation Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)? ok Illustrations and sound clips Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.) Images; no sound. References, sources and bibliography Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references? Article is referenced; uneven inline citations. Structure and compliance with WP:MOS Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.) Lead is short; numerous MOS formatting issues. Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE) Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD) Article text formatting needs work (e.g. quotation methods, punctuation, inconsistent styles) Summary This is a pretty good biography of a musician, performer, and educator. It is somewhat deficient as a composer biography; for an article this long, his compositions deserve more space than the one section at the end. This leads to other questions: for example, were his operas staged under his supervision? There is also no mention of him teaching Tchaikovsky (mentioned in his article), or other notable interactions with that giant. The article contains a number of formatting MOS violations, and would benefit from copyediting to fix them. Its lead is also short; it should summarize the article's main points. While much work has been done on citation, more would be needed for a formal review. Article is B-class, but a bit weak; composer content needs to be expanded. Magic♪piano 16:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 16:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 08:01, 29 April 2016 (UTC)