Talk:Anti-miscegenation laws/Archive 1

Archive 1

Incomplete and misleading

One of the refs [1] called "Source of information" says 30 (out of 48) states in the 1940's and 1950's had such laws. The article would benefit from a listing, since only a few are now included and it gives the false impression that only a few states banned interracial marriages. Did they ban, say, negros marrying Asians, or did they only ban whites marrying non-whites? There might be a tabulation in the Supreme Court ruling which finally struck them all down. Edison 22:57, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

There's a cool graphic here: [2] You can click through year by year from 1662 through 1967 to see which states had anti-miscegination laws in effect in the particular year. Hover your mouse over a state, and the years that the law was in effect in that state is shown. Click on a state and you get an exerpt from that state's anti-miscegination law, which should give an idea of who was prohibited from who in that particular state. --Ramsey2006 23:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The repeal of Anti-miscegenation laws, 1948-1967

Interracial marriage bans in the southern United States is an orphan article about the same subject matter as this section. Maybe there's some material there that can be merged into this section? — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 22:43, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. However, be careful. That page suggests that these laws were still in effect. In fact, they have been unconstitutional since 1967. It took these states thirty years to scrap these laws from the books, even though they were already defunct.Fairlane75 19:25, 26 May 2007 (UTC).

The Arabian world and the rights of women marrying non-Muslims

Is there any reason why this article makes no mention whatsoever of the laws existing in many Arabic countries which revoke all the citizenship rights of women who marry either a man not native to the woman's country of birth, or to a man who is non-Muslim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.196.79.76 (talk) 16:36, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

As it is, this article deals exclusively with the subject of anti-miscegenation as it exists (or has existed) in the Western world, and lacks any form of world-wide context. I've added a tag to request that information be added about the subject as it still exists/thrives in many other parts of the world, today anno 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.196.79.76 (talk) 18:01, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

U.S.

With the U.S. sections of this article making up over 2/3 of article, I suggest that this material should be placed in a separate US-only article that is then referenced from this article. This article would then not be overwhelmed by the US sections. Hmains (talk) 18:01, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Spain

"anti-miscegenation laws were implemented in Spain, which prevented miscegenation between those with pure European blood and those with Moorish or Jewish blood". I believe this is incorrect and needs to be verified and supported with authoritative citations. What is the exact wording of the link provided? Is it supported by other sources? GS3 (talk) 19:06, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

The China section is full of misinforrmation

The section under China is full of misinformation. First of all, the migration of non-Chinese into China began during the Western Jin dynasty (280 – 316 C.E.) not the 7th century. At the beginning of the Western Jin dynasty the emperor opened the border allowing non-Chinese to settle in China in the hope of replenishing the population. The Western Jin dynasty was founded after decades of war which led to the severe decline of population. Many tribal people moved into China, mainly from five groups: the Hsiung-nu, the Chieh, the Hsien-pei, and two groups from Tibet the Ti and Ch’iang people. Soon after they moved into China they took advantage of the weakness of the government by raising their own armies and forming their own kingdoms. They succeed in destroying the Western Jin government and seizing the land in the North of Yangtze River. The Chinese government and the majority of its people fled to the South side of Yangtze River and from there they established the Eastern Jin Dynasty.

The five non-Chinese groups, after driving the Chinese out of northern China, build their own kingdoms and fought each other for land and supremacy. In about three centuries two dozen kingdoms were found and the land and people suffered many wars. This long period of chaos is called “Wu Hu (Five non-Chinese) Ravaged China” in the Chinese history. During this time Chinese people suffered under the ruling of these people. Although there were racial hatred, massacred of huge number of people based on race occurred, interracial marriage took place and became common over time. It is uncertain whether commoners married outside of their races but historical record shows many in the ruling class came from interracial families.

This following statement is ridiculous. “There were laws and policies which discouraged miscegenation during the Tang Dynasty, 836 AD, a decree forbidding Chinese to have relations with peoples of color, such as Iranians, Arabs, Indians, Malays, Sumatrans, and so on.” The first emperor of the Tang dynasty himself married a non-Chinese woman who came from an eastern Mongolian tribe, and his son Emperor Tai-tsung had a policy of giving non-Chinese people the equal treatment. Many non-Chinese took high government posts in the Tang dynasty including the infamous general An Lushan whose rebellion led to the decline of Tang dynasty. These non-Chinese were allowed to be high officials and generals surely they were allowed to marry Chinese women and they did.

Under the Mongolian rule in the Yuen dynasty the Chinese were discriminated, they were barred from high level government posts. The Mongolian conquerors did not trust the Chinese. In the Qing dynasty the Manchurian conquerors practiced similar policies and interracial marriage between the Manchurians and Han Chinese were barred among nobilities and discouraged in lower levels.

I am new to Wiki so I don’t want to edit this article yet. It bothers me to see such misinformation. TDL79 (talk) 04:55, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Pakistan

The Pakistan section is about exogamy not miscegnation. It is about relations between tribes, not those between races. And it is about a custom, not a law. It doesn't belong here. Newman Luke (talk) 15:00, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Contradictory information on India

The page on Anglo-Indians cites two sources claiming that anti-miscegenation laws were formed in India which contradicts what is claimed in this page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Indian#India —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.64.16.48 (talk) 13:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Jewish law

Surprised to see nothing about Deuteronomy 7:3. It's the oldest anti-miscegenation law and is still being practised. mikemikev (talk) 21:47, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not religious enough to know much about this, so I dug around a bit. Deuteronomy 7:1–3 (King James version) reads:

1When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

3Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

The Canaan article identifies Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, Arvadites, Zemarites, and Hamathites as Biblical Canaanites. The Perizzites article identifies them as Girgashite Canaanite. This source says, "Hebrews were not a separate nation - they were merely peasant Canaanites who were left homeless. [...] "Joshua and the Hebrews were not conquerors of Canaanites. They were Canaanites," according to "Ancient Evidence: Joshua and the Walls of Jericho." What separated Hebrews from Canaanites was theology, not genetics: [...]". The lead sentence of this article says, "Anti-miscegenation laws, also known as miscegenation laws, were laws that banned interracial marriage and sometimes sex between members of two different races." This biblical prohibition doesn't seem to be racially based, and so this would not seem to be an anti-miscegenation law as such laws are defined in this article. At least, that's how I read things. Perhaps I misunderstand, though. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 19:28, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Miscegenation refers to genetic mixing. How are you defining race? The Israelites were a different family to the other Canaanites. This appears to be a case of 'super' anti-miscegenation and clearly qualifies. Since Israelites are ethnically homogenous, and since this law by extension prevents marriage among other races, this is de facto anti miscegenation by any definition. mikemikev 155.198.22.29 (talk) 10:14, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Such an assertion would need supporting sources. I was commenting that Deuteronomy 7:1–3 didn't look to me like a good supporting source for that assertion. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:30, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Understood. I'll try to put something together. mikemikev (talk) 09:09, 3 January 2010 (UTC)