Talk:Anne Beauchamp, 16th Countess of Warwick

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Title for suo jure Peeresses

Doesn't Wiki usually keep maiden names for suo jure Peeresses? I.E. Alice Montacute, 5th Countess of Salisbury. -- Lady Meg (talk) 17:21, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I thought it was more usual to use married names, i.e. Henrietta Godolphin, 2nd Duchess of Marlborough. Anyway, I suppose it would be best to use the name which is most commonly used in sources (excluding purely genealogical works, of course). Surtsicna (talk) 18:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

She's known as Anne Beauchamp in sources. According to writer Susan Higginbottom in her work on Anne, she is Anne Beauchamp or the Countess of Warwick -- Anne Beauchamp. Douglas Richardson also refers to her as Beauchamp. It just doesn't make sense to call her Anne Neville, 16th Countess of Warwick because that is not how she would have been known or titled as a suo jure Countess. It makes it seem like her maiden name was Neville and that a Neville held the title of Countess of Warwick when in fact the title was gained through her marriage to Richard who was simply Richard Neville at the time of their marriage. Richard wouldn't gain his father's title of Earl of Salisbury until 1460 well after his marriage to Anne. -- Lady Meg (talk) 20:37, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is a very difficult one to call. I think it would be reasonable to call her either, but the married name would be the norm within wikipedia. I suspect that the reason she is commonly known as Anne Beauchamp is twofold -

to differentiate her from her more famous daughter
to make it clear to everyone that the title had passed to her husband through her

rather than because any convention demanded that she use her maiden name. The statement by Susan Higginbottom makes perfect sense in this context - cf. "Diana Spencer" or "The Princess of Wales". Deb (talk) 14:52, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would still like to propose moving this back to Lady Anne de Beauchamp, 16th Countess of Warwick as that is how most people in the genealogy and history world refer to her. Having her as Anne Neville is rather confusing as well. I'm not sure I understand the Diana Spencer reference as Diana gained the title via her husband. Anne was heiress/Countess in her own right after her niece died. I suppose I wasn't clear enough above. Her husband, Richard Neville, gained the title through his wife. The title was held by the Beauchamp family. -- Lady Meg (talk) 21:35, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably she was styled Lady Anne Beauchamp from her birth until she got married - then Lady Anne Neville until her niece died - then Lady Warwick (see Forms of address in the United Kingdom) until her husband died - then, after being disinherited, simply Lady Anne, perhaps? MSOrschel (talk) 23:31, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 23:28, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Anne Neville, 16th Countess of Warwick → Anne de Beauchamp, 16th Countess of Warwick – See discussion on talk page. She was a suo jure peeress as Anne de Beauchamp, Countess of Warwick and she had a daughter named Anne Neville which confuses people. Lady Meg (talk) 21:45, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.