Talk:Annales Bertiniani

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Latin text

I have removed the untranslated Latin text below which was added to the end of the article. I assume it comes from the Annales (since there was no citation), but seems inappropriate in an English-language encyclopedia. I'm not sure if it would even be appropriate to reinsert a translation of the passage, since the encyclopedia article is meant to condense the narrative of such chronicles. --Iacobus 01:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Venerunt etiam legati Grecorum a Theophilo imperatore directi, Theodosius videlicet Calcedonensis metropolitanus episcopus et Theophanius spatarius, ferentes cum donis imperatori dignis epistola; quos imperator quinto decimo Kalendas Iunii in Ingulenheim honorifice suscepit. Quorum legatio super confirmatione pacti et pacis atque perpetuae inter utrumque imperatorem eique subditos amicitiae et caritatis agebat, necnon de victoriis, quas adversus exteras bellando gentes caelitus fuerat assecutus, gratificatio et in Domino exultatio ferebatur; in quibus imperatorem sibique subiectos amicabiliter Datori victoriarum omnium gratias referre poposcit. Misit etiam cum eis quosdam, qui se, id est gentem suam, Rhos vocari dicebant, quos rex illorum chacanus vocabulo ad se amicitiae, sicut asserebant, causa direxerat, petens per memoratam epistolam, quatenus benignitate imperatoris redeundi facultatem atque auxilium per imperium suum toto habere possent, quoniam itinera, per quae ad illum Constantinopolim venerant, inter barbaras et nimiae feritatis gentes inmanissimas habuerant, quibus eos, ne forte periculum inciderent, redire noluit. Quorum adventus causam imperator diligentius investigans, comperit, eos gentis esse Sueonum. Exploratores potius regni illius nostrique quam amicitiae petitores ratus, penes se eo usque retinendos iudicavit, quoad veraciter inveniri posset, utrum fideliter eo necne pervenerint; idque Theophilo per memoratos legatos suos atque epistolam intimare non distulit, et quod eos illius amore libenter susceperit, ac, si fideles invenirentur, et facultas absque illorum periculo in patriam remeandi daretur, cum auxilio remittendos; sin alias, una cum missis nostris ad eius praesentiam dirigendos, ut, quid de talibus fieri deberet, ipse decernendo efficeret.

Well, just for the sake of completeness, I am going to quote the English version from Janet Nelson's translation (given in the References) and let someone far more clever than me decide whether any of it should have some space in either this or the "Rhos" article. Idontcareanymore (talk) 08:13, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There also came envoys from the Greeks sent by the Emperor Theophilus. They were Theodosius, metropolitan bishop of Chalcedon, and Theophanus the Spatharius and they brought gifts worthy for an emperor, and a letter. The Emperor received them with due ceremony on 18 May at Ingelheim. The purpose of their mission was to confirm the treaty of peace and perpetual friendship and love between the two emperors and their subjects. They also brought congratulations and exultation in the Lord on the victories that our Emperor had gained with Heaven’s help in his wars against foreign peoples. Theophilus in friendly fashion urged the Emperor and his subjects to offer up thanks to God for all these victories. He also sent with the envoys some men who said they — meaning their whole people [gens] — were called Russians and had been sent to him by their king whose name was the Khagan for the sake of friendship, so they claimed. Theophilus requested in his letter that the Emperor in his goodness might grant them safe conducts to travel through his empire and any help or practical assistance they needed to return home, for the route by which they had reached Constantinople had taken them through primitive tribes that were very fierce and savage and Theophilus did not wish them to return that way in case some disaster befell them. When the Emperor investigated more closely the reason for their coming here, he discoverd that they belonged to the people of the Swedes. He suspected that they had really been sent as spies to this kingdom of ours rather than as seekers of our friendship, so he decided to keep them with him until he could find out for certain whether or not they had come in good faith. He lost no time in sending a letter to Theophilus through the same envoys to tell him all this, and to add that he had received them willingly for the sake of his friendship for Theophilus and that if they were found to be genuine, he would supply them with means to return to their own fatherland without any risk of danger and send them home with every assistance, but if not, he would send them with envoys of ours back to Theophilus for him to deal with as he might think fit.

(It is part of the annal entry for the year 839, by the way.) Idontcareanymore (talk) 08:16, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some adjustments

I have added some more information, so that the article does not present the annals as all about vikings and khagans. Also moved a couple of sentences that seemed jumbled together in an awkward sequence. The resume of the year 839 was interspersed with interpretative statements and I have rewritten this passage. Also adding references and styling references/literature to the Template:Harv and Template:Citation templates. NB! I am not regularly online, so my response may be slow Sechinsic (talk) 12:21, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Annales Bertiniani/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

It doesn't seem short/unrefed enough for Stub, so I'm giving it Start, though it still needs lots of work.

Last edited at 02:37, 20 September 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 07:54, 29 April 2016 (UTC)