Talk:Andrei Sukhovetsky

Notable for one event?

It seems the figure is notable for one event, evident by all the sources talking about him being about his death. Solipsism 101 (talk) 23:47, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Andrei Sukhovetsky?

RSs seem to call him Andrei Sukhovetsky.[1][2] Including the one we cite for his name.[3] Solipsism 101 (talk) 23:56, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

@Solipsism 101: I have seen both spellings, and Wikipedia seems to use both "Andrei" and "Andrey" when translating the same name, depeding on the article. Anyway, I wouldn't oppose a rename. Applodion (talk) 11:52, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Confirmation

It as not confirmed, it a claimed and it will be treated as such. But numerous ukrainian officers has been KIA and confirmed by ukrainians sources, and sometime russians sources, so.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E34:ECAC:93E0:B9D1:6103:A738:9628 (talk) 10:58, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Read the sources. Applodion (talk) 11:07, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

No i will not, as it has not been confirmed, and there are not "source", but ukrainians claims..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E34:ECAC:93E0:B9D1:6103:A738:9628 (talk) 11:11, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Pravda, russian state news, says he was killed. · · · Omnissiahs hierophant (talk) 11:16, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

His death was also confirmed by the Russian President, a Russian veterans group, his comrades in the Russian military, and his Russian aunt. These are hardly Ukrainian sources. Applodion (talk) 11:17, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

The anon appears to be vandal. They are trying to delete the Russian confirmations from the page... Applodion (talk) 11:23, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

I will try to ask to move this page to protected status. · · · Omnissiahs hierophant (talk) 11:30, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

@Omnissiahs hierophant: Thank you very much. Applodion (talk) 11:31, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

No it was denied; in fact russian MOD only confirmed 498 Death, and only one soldier identity was given...So it was not confirmed by the president, nor by the Ministry of defense, or any veterans groups, and an groups's account is not a source....should i remind you of Strelkov/Girkin's account and the MH destruction by DPR. You are german, so you are probably a ottoman troll and frauders. Learn your fact...[ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E34:ECAC:93E0:B9D1:6103:A738:9628 (talk) 11:27, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

References

Where was he killed?

Some source say North of Kiev, not Mariupol. --79.22.22.47 (talk) 19:16, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Can you provide a source for your statement? The reference currently cited in the article (see here) says Mariupol. Applodion (talk) 15:33, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

In this German news article, it says "48km from Kyiv" Hochrangiger russischer Putin-General soll von Scharfschützen erschossen worden sein. It references Newsweek (among others), which itself doesn't give a location. A Dutch news site mentioned Kyiv as well, but without giving sources.

Sky News doesn't give a location either. The NYT Post also says 'it isn't clear where he was killed'. Same is true for Daily Mail. The reference (used in the Wikipedia article) to Radio Free Europe only gives as source for "Mariupol" a single tweet by Andriy Terekhov, which was subsequently deleted. This link is also used in the article on the Siege of Mariupol.

The source used in the Wikipedia article from Independent does not mention a location either. Krasnodar (location of officer who confirmed death), while being close to Mariupol, does not mean it happened in Mariupol.

I think the bottom line is, there's conflicting stories here, while most news agencies just say "we don't know", or refer to tweets that have since been deleted. Quite hard to get a reputable source in the fog of war... The only thing all sources seem to agree on, is that he was killed by a sniper. Abel (talk) 14:12, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for this information. I will adjust the article accordingly. Nevermind, another user already changed the text. Applodion (talk) 12:12, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Indeed, looks good now. Multiple viewpoints are now given, which reflects the actual reporting in the different news outlets. Abel (talk) 12:50, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Date of birth

Wrong date of birth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.173.11.157 (talk) 15:14, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Corrected. Thanks for pointing it out. Applodion (talk) 15:31, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

New POV pushing

@Blablubbs:@Omnissiahs hierophant: Seeing as you two helped to stop the last POV pushing attempt on this page, I would like to request that you take a look at this renewed case. An editor which has never edited anything else has recently begun to insert the claim that Sukhovetsky was "allegedly" killed, while "Russia dissmised this claim as dissinformation". The editor uses two Russian sources both which seem to be barely used here on Wikipedia. Either way, this is ridiculous, as Sukhovetsky's death has been confirmed by almost everyone, including Putin himself. Applodion (talk) 19:09, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Change Andrey Sukhovetsky to Andrei Sukhovetsky

Hello, I request and suggest a name change the article and subsequent named parts to Andrei Sukhovetsky. That's because several sources used for this article, as well as others, have used that translated name. Sources: [4], [5] (translated to Andrei for me), [6] (translated to Andrei for me), [7], [8], [9] and [10]. Mitchend17 (talk)

It's aready been suggested and cautiously seconded above, but no one did the deed. I also cautiously support it. But does anyone know if there's a standard Latin alphabet orthography (ok - spelling) out there for "Андрей", ensdorsed by some learned institute in the Anglosphere? German wiki, serving a readership many of whom would have become pretty fluent in Russian as a second language, appears to favour "Andrei". (I understand that for a lot of kids Russian was mandatatory in East German schools between 1949 and 1989: of course those guys would still have been using the Latin alphabet for their mother-tongue.) Any more thoughts? Charles01 (talk) 07:15, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Normal Advice Talk

Hello. I am just a normal user. Some advice: The two methods to do something about stuff like this, is to 1) ask to ban the user, 2) ask to protect the page.

Protection of a page appears to be most quickly done by talking directly to administrators. They hang out at IRC, in the channel #wikipedia-en at the irc.libera.chat network. (I will now ask to protect this page again.) It takes like 0-30 minutes until admins go over the list of requests to ban users. Btw, thanks for being relentless in your pursuit for article accuracy. · · · Omnissiahs hierophant (talk) 19:34, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@Omnissiahs hierophant: I am aware that you are a normal user, and I am also aware that I could ask for page protection. I just wanted to ask for your and Blablubbs' opinion on the matter, i.e. whether I am correct in assuming that this is probably just POV pushing again. Applodion (talk) 20:34, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes. You are right. Are/why you doubting yourself? :) · · · Omnissiahs hierophant (talk) 20:37, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@Omnissiahs hierophant: I have seen enough cases where people tend to take such disputes too personal and start to fling POV accusations around. I just want to make sure that I am assessing the situation correctly and not accuse Mnemomachus of problematic behavior in an unfair way. However, if they continue to insert their POV into the article, I will request page protection. Thanks for your comments. Applodion (talk) 21:44, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Seems that my request to write-protect the page was ignored :\ · · · Omnissiahs hierophant (talk) 22:25, 23 March 2022 (UTC)