Talk:Andha Naal

Subtitles

Is a version with English subtitles available anywhere? --Joachim Pense (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

AFAIK - no. English subtitling for old Tamil films is rare and even when it happens (dvd releases for overseas markets) are of very poor quality with literal and out of context translations.--Sodabottle (talk) 03:36, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Images and Plot

Why not add some images and expand the plot section of this article?

Removed text

From Production, per WP:COATRACK (irrelevant):

Sundaram Balachander, a "multi-faceted" film personality entered films as an actor in 1934 and apprenticed under director Krishna Gopal for the film Idhu Nijama (1948), a supernatural thriller. Following the success of Idhu Nijama, Balachander directed En Kanavar (1948) and Kaidhi (1951), both made on similar themes.

References

Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 02:00, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Andha Naal/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Dr. Blofeld (talk · contribs) 09:20, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Plot

• Why is "arrests" in scare quotes?

Because at the time, he (Sivanandam) orders an (apparent) arrest of two characters. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:40, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Blofeld and Vensatry, is the sentence fine as it is? Also, I have mentioned Rajan in the cast as a renegade radio engineer because he betrays his country. Is that also fine with u guys? Kailash29792 (talk) 17:05, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Production

• Idhu Nijama -add year in brackets

 Done Kailash29792 (talk) 09:40, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

• I suppose AVM is more common but I think it looks more professional if you refer to him throughout as Meiyappan.

It is upto Vensatry to do this. Kailash29792 (talk) 10:41, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I see someone has already changed it. —Vensatry _(ping) 16:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

• Pipe Calcutta to Kolkata

 Done

But why, was it not called Calcutta in 1954? —Vensatry _(ping) 16:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

• "too keen" seems odd, "highly keen" would fit better.
• "was very different than" = "was markedly different from"

 Done both as you said. Kailash29792 (talk) 10:41, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Themes

• "Kolaiyum Sival patthini (a virtuous wife may even kill her own husband)" " The quote marks should really end after the Tamil word not around the English too.
• "Usha, who is seen as a virtuous wife and a patriot who loves her country very much." -repetition of "who", you can remove in first instance.

 Done fixed both issues. Kailash29792 (talk) 10:41, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Reception

• "Although a commercial failure during the initial release, the film in its subsequent releases became a box-office success.[d][10] Despite being a box-office failure during its initial release." -repetition of initial release.
  • Rephrased —Vensatry _(ping) 16:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
• "and many stated that, the film gave a "new dimension" to Tamil cinema.[15][31] Ganesan's role as an "anti-hero" won critical acclaim,[17] while many critics opined that Pandari Bai's role as his patriotic wife "overshadowed" Ganesan's performance.[32] Many of -repetition of many and despite reiterating it you don't mention any actual examples of critics and any reviews.
  • Removed the dimension part as I have some problem accessing the document. As for Pandari Bai's performance, Randor Guy claims that it was according to many critics. —Vensatry _(ping) 16:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Legacy

• "Though largely ignored during its release, it is regarded as a cult classic." -do we know when it began to be considered as a classic?
  • Do we know when exactly films acquire such status? Rephrased it —Vensatry _(ping) 16:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
• "Andha Naal inspired a few Whodunit films like Puthiya Paravai (1964), Kalangarai Vilakkam (1965), Sigappu Rojakkal (1978), Moodu Pani (1980) and Pulan Visaranai (1990). Further, Andha Naal inspired" -rep of inspired

 Done written as "Andha Naal inspired a few whodunit films like [...] and a few song-less films in Tamil such as [...]" Kailash29792 (talk) 05:23, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Notes

• Does note "a" really need to have India and South India linked?

 Done written as Indian and South Indian cinemas. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:58, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Bibliography

• " The cinemas of India." -is this lower casing for a title intentional?

 Done the book cover shows a capital C, so added the same. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:52, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Image

• File:Andha Naal.jpg needs to be swiftly settled as it's currently up for deletion.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:51, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Will be done ASAP. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:52, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

File:Andha naal still.jpg presumably would also not apply as the still wasn't taken before January 1 1954. Looks as if you'll have to wait until January :-)

I actually uploaded the image, but have requested it for deletion. Kailash29792 (talk) 10:03, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

 Done I think both issues are settled. Kailash29792 (talk) 08:55, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Outside GA review

Kind of sad isn't it that most Indian audiences apparently reject films without songs and dances. I think Indian cinema has really suffered as a result. Think of all the classic film noir type of films which the country missed out on! You can't really produce a moody, atmospheric film if it breaks out in a song and dance every 10 minutes! I don't get what the preoccupation is with that in India, do you know why? ♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:14, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Although I am Indian, I do feel that music and dance in Indian cinema are completely unnecessary, until they play an important role in the plot, rather than being stand-alone segments. Kailash29792 (talk) 10:20, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, a lot of Indian film buffs on here including Shshshsh and Krimuk feel the same way. I mean, in American film, musicals have their place and can be entertaining and enjoyable, but there is a good range of films. In Indian cinema though they seem to form the vast majority of films, even a lot of those which are supposed to be darker in tone like crime films. I've seen what could have been gritty Indian crime films ruined by dance numbers which look totally inappropriate. I guess they know what sells. It's by no coincidence that a lot of the Indian films which are most highly regarded internationally like the Apu trilogy etc are the rare ones which aren't.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:40, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Although totally unrelated to this GA review, I cannot but add my two cents in this discussion. In my opinion, films in India are a much more important source of entertainment for the mass (compared to Western countries). Since the inception of films in India, music has been playing such a pivotal role in almost every film! You need good songs and dance to entertain Indian mass and that perhaps has its roots in older forms of vernacular mass entertainment such as nautanki or Jatra (theatre), or even older classical dance forms. While songs/dances routines may be less palatable to Western tastes/ Indian "class" taste, those remain inseparable from films for general mass, to which almost all commercial films are aimed at. I actually feel quite proud for this peculiarity :)--Dwaipayan (talk) 01:40, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Seems that way. It still surprises me though that they appear even in things which are meant to be gritty crime films. I've sure there's a lot of young working class males in India in which the classic action film would appeal to without song and dance numbers. I saw Kaminey a few weeks back and I thought the song and dance numbers ruined what would have otherwise been a good film. You can't produce a serious, gritty crime film and have them break out into that! In a lot of the classic Indian romance films I rather like the dance and songs, where as Kailash says it actually seems to fit with the plot. Especially on location, I think it can be charming. But it has to be the right context.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:19, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

You are correct about "lot of young working class males " and females. And probably that's why several films in last 15 years or so showed less number of or no songs/dances. Again, most of such films are what the media calls "aimed at multiplex audience" (multiplexes play such films aimed at urban youth while single screens usually do not play them). --Dwaipayan (talk) 13:43, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Nice to see some interesting off-topic discussion going on. @Dwaipayanc: It's quite amazing to hear someone from West Bengal supporting the inclusion of songs in our films. In the Tamil film industry, directors like J. Mahendran and Balu Mahendra have always claimed that they hate to have songs in their films. But even in their films we could normally see some four to five songs (besides some sensuous ones made in the name of "compromises"). @Kailash29792: Thanks for your participation. I was too busy in real life for the past couple of days. —Vensatry _(ping) 17:22, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, the directors you named, their films are more towards the arthouse genre than purely commercial style. In Indian arthhouse films, we do not see that much songs and dances. As you move more towards commercial films geared mainly towards entertainment, you see more songs and dances. Besides, if you have some hit songs, the revenue from selling sound tracks is additional source of income. Plus, hit songs often pave the way for the films becoming popular/hit. --Dwaipayan (talk) 18:31, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

@Vensatry: Ping me when you've addressed the remaining points and I'll pass it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:27, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld:, Thanks for the review. I Think your concerns have been addressed. —Vensatry _(ping) 16:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Nicely done.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:04, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Not good.

This article about Andha Naal is not good when comparing it with other international articles. It is very biased. Yes when looking at a machine's point of view it may check every criteria needed in the list. But i am not a machine i can think on my own off course every human does that is why i have decided to discuss about this article.

You editors who have written this article has one ambition is to tarnish the image of the film by saying it a Rashoman inspired even in the opening into(that is how i call it) paragraph. Which movie does not have influences but when i see both movies it is totally different from Rashoman. Even if you find one similarity between both you can write about it but it is totally different apart from both being a murder mystery. Even if this movie has influences it should mentioned in development or production not the every beginning. Even before going through the article u are misguiding the readers. in the case if this film is remake then you call it as ghilli remake of okkadu. Billa remake of 1979 film of the same name. Or Harry Potter adapted by J.K Rowling novel. But you don't call a film as Andha naal inspired from rashoman unless it is a complete ripoff. See article about reservoir dogs how the film's inspiration and influences are written. or see Raiders of the lost ark how the story was developed and where they got inspirations. After reading both articles and see where this stands.

Comparing with Rashoman: 1. Rashoman is a film with concept where in a police investigation people give different stories to same events to suit them. That is called after this movie as Rashoman effect. But this concept does not happen in Andha Naal. then why Rashoman effect is mentioned in the below. please this film has not anything to with both Andha naal or woman in the question. It is simple whodunnit like Many Poirot movies. in this film even what everyone says in investigation is true. All you can do is watch both movies and you can see for yourself those two films are different from Andha Naal ( available in you tube or be downloaded). Please don't spoil the image of a film. In the case if the film has been copied then we write about the movie but this movie is not. Even at that case it has to mentioned in plagiarism accusation or similarities with other movies but in main section.

2. Don't give some article as source. Are you sure the person who wrote article actually saw both films. You know how Indian articles especially with Tamil cinema. Has any newspapers has ever been reliable in box office report. India times will give one number but Hindu will give exactly the opposite. While some Tamil magazine will call the same as a flop. We are people who can think and be reasoned with not some A.I machine.

Watch the film and decide for yourself. In this case the film has not lifted a story or even some scenes. It is totally different movie. Every article people just ant to post this line Andhanaal inspired form Rashoman. What do the editors even gain just to show their superiority. I am not saying you cant but be sure before you do by watching the movie and decide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.125.98.132 (talk) 09:18, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

First learn to write like an adult, in mature, proper and complete sentences! Andha Naal was indeed inspired by Rashomon, but only partially. Sivaji himself admitted this in his autobiography. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:31, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

he said he watched Rashoman and wanted to make a murder mystery like Rashomon but the film has no similarities between not even partial.Just give one similarity between Rashoman and Andhanaal Have u seen rashoman or woman in the past? see for yourself and then write. And i am saying you should write about all the influences in separate section not in the beginning ( i have given and example about reservoir dogs). sorry i am not used to write in these mediums. Just because u r English is better that does not mean u have tell a wrong information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.125.98.132 (talk) 12:32, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Still, Andha Naal and Rashomon are similar in the sense that the various character provide alternative, self-serving and contradictory versions of the same incident. Kailash29792 (talk) 14:29, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Are you sure. did u see andha naal? which character gives alternative, self-serving and contradictory versions of the same incident. That is the problem, that is what called is " rashoman effect" which does not take place in Andha Naal. Many people think it happened but no. can u name one character that alters the event like Virumaandi.

Yes I have seen Andha Naal; each suspect contradicts the others when narrating the reason behind Sivaji's death. Kailash29792 (talk) 16:37, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

No they dont. What they say is true they dont alter their stories. Neighbor suspects his brother because he overheard his brother shouting at him, What is brother says is true and he leads to his wife because she was greedy for money, what she says is true and she suspects his extra martial affair and leads to his mistress Ambujam and she leads again to their neighbour. But the fact none of them lie to the police.Rashoman effect does not takes place here. They just reveal what they knew about Rajan. At the end of first half these things are over and story moves towards his wife and their flashback. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ganeshiyer3000 (talk • contribs) 16:49, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

It is in Rashoman they actually alter the story for their benefit. The bandit, the wife and the husband alter and give different story to the same event while finally the woodcutter gives the actual story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ganeshiyer3000 (talk • contribs) 16:58, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

In Andha Naal none of the main suspects neighbor, brother, brother's wife and mistress actually know who murdered. They just reveal what they knew, what they have heard and seen. In Rashoman everyone knows what happened. They were present when the murder happened but they just give an altered story to suit them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ganeshiyer3000 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

The Indian Express' review

Page 3 has a review. Make use of it if necessary. —Editor5454 (talk) 13:48, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

 Done: Thank you very much Editor5454! It has been used under "release and reception". Co-incidentally, today happens to be the film's 63rd anniversary. --Kailash29792 (talk) 14:16, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh! I'm sorry. I did not carefully check the sources used. 63 years, yes! —Editor5454 (talk) 14:22, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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