Talk:Andalusia/Archive 1

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Archive 1

OtherUses template

Please change the article to use Template:OtherUses instead of Template:otheruses it currently uses. The OtherUses template has information about the contents of the article.

For a sample use of this template refer to the articles Alabama or Algiers--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by DuKot (talk • contribs) .

Note that that functionality is now at {{otheruses1}}. {{OtherUses}} redirects to {{otheruses}}, and is deprecated.--Srleffler 18:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Andalusia Reference

Andalusia is referenced in the Doors song, Spanish Caravan: "Andalusia with fields full of grain / I have to see you again and again..."

Andalusia pictures

My Internet side http://www.picturechoice.org/andalusia/index.html can supply meaningful supplementing pictorial material to the article Andalusia. The pictorial material published there by me is not subject to restrictions of use in this format. It exclusively concerns own digital photos. The decision over screen selection, upload and/or mounting an externally link on my web page I would like to leave to the authors of the article. --ozes

Andalusia (Andalucia) capital´s isnt Malague (Malaga), it´s Seville (Sevilla). Who wrote it?.

++++

Pueblos blancos arent in Malaga, instead, they are located in Cadiz´s sierra. There´s even a route called "Ruta de los Pueblos Blancos" (Arcos, Ubrique, Bornos...) starting near Seville and finishing in the proximity of the Atlantic Ocean, by Cadiz town.´

Boundaries: ¿Gibraltar or/and Marruecos?

Marruecos is a country with wich Spain shares a frontier and geographical demarcation (Algeciras is a prominent gateway to North Africa, or to Europe, starting from the south). Gibraltar is much more small to higlight or substitute a whole country.

If Portugal is at the west, Morrocco (Marruecos, en español) is at the south, sharing an ocean frontier with Spain, and land limits at Ceuta y Melilla. A country is much more important than Gibraltar, whose political status is actually being discussed by the British and the Spanish Governments.

I totally disagree.

1. Ceuta and Melilla are not Andalucia, they are independent autonomous comunities.

2. Andalucia never touch phisically Morroco. The fact that you can take boat from Algeciras to Morroco is not enought to call it a boundarie. There are customs in Algecira to take the boat to Morroco but that's because international laws about ports and airports.

For example, if I arrive in a plane from Spain to USA there is a zone of the airport before oficially entering American soil, does that means that Spain shares boundaries with USA?, obviously no. The same is aplicable to any port, including Algeciras.

3. Gibraltar isnt there to substitute anything. Spain and UK may be discussing his status for centuries, but as today it's oficially British territory by any aplicable law.

4. I also disagree with the edit that changes Atlantic Ocean and Mediterranean Sea by Strait of Gibraltar (and deleting Gibraltar, contradicting himself). The south doesn mean the very south, the Strait is only 1% of the total South side of Andalucia. It doens even leave mention to the Mediterranean sea (neither in the east) when it's 90% of the sea boundaries.

I edited everything from scrach to reflect all these details, it makes the paragraph longer but I think it's the more accurate it can be.

I agree with both last posts but it should be mentioned that although Ceuta and Melilla are no longer politically part of Andalucia (they were untill very recently, attached to the provinces of Cadiz and Malaga) they are still culturally (ethnically?) part of Andalucia.

Vandalusia

>>I believe this article should point out that this region was briefly in control of the vandals, who named this region Vandalusia.

>>--Gortu 17:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

>There is no documented source which proves that the region was ever called "Vandalusia". It is just a theory with no basis in fact and no >evidence whatsoever to support it. Have a look at the article of Al Andalus, where the etymology of al andalus is discussed more fully.

At least it would be reasonable to point out the debate, as the spanish article does.

The statement "The name Andalusia is derived from the Arabic name "Al Andalus"" is not corrected. Because the name Andalusia is inherited from the word "Vaudalusia". It was last part of Europe left by Vandals and they give own name this territory.

No. That if just a theory. There is no evidence that al andalus comes from anything to do with Vandals and there is no documented record of Andalusia ever having been called Vandalusia.--Burgas00 12:55, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it the theory should be mentioned. It is given at Andalusia (disambiguation) and Vandals, but this page pretends the theory doesn't exist, which is a bit inconsistent. Should Vandalusia also be created to redirect here? I came here just to read about the theory and was a bit puzzled before reading the talk page. -- Coffee2theorems | Talk 18:19, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

This article states the only documented fact which is that andalusia comes from Al Andalus. The possible etymologies for the arabic name al andalus (of which vandalusia is only one very dubious theory with no documental evidence or historical backing whatsoever) can be discussed on the relevant page: Al Andalus.--Burgas00 01:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Someone has added reference to Vandalusia again which is getting quite irritating. There is no historical evidence of any place in the world ever having been called Vandalusia. There are 3 main speculations on the name: Read about them in Al Andalus--Burgas00 00:19, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Arabic name

This is done to clean up Wikipedia.
I'd like to know why is the Arabic name included? Northern 17:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Please sign your comments.

The arabic name should be added because for 800 or so years that area was controlled by Arabs. To be historically accurate the name Al-Andalus should be there. --Hfarmer 15:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

It is not official, therefore it has been removed. Besides the territory of Al-Andalus was not equal to modern-day Andalusia. Regards, --Asterion^talk 17:36, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Al-Andalus has nothing to do with Andalusia, Andalusia was only a small part of Al-Andalus, Al-Andalus included great parts of eastern and northern Spain too, as well as whole Portugal.

External Link

I added a link to "Andalucia on my Mind" It's a travel story connecting Antequera, Ronda and Malaga

Scribbleman 07:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Please wait for a response on this talkpage when you announce your intentions to include these Terje Raa travel stories. Don’t include them yourself, as including these links are your only contributions here, you seem to have a conflict of interest. Please wait for community input, thanks. --Van helsing 12:37, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

After one month, still no response from the Andalusia editors, so I inserted the link myself, hoping they will keep it awhile to see how it works. Scribbleman (talk) 09:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

External links policy on Advertising and conflicts of interest states You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent, and in this case, you are Terje Raa^[1] . Unfortunately your conflict of interest editing involves contributing to Wikipedia in order to promote yourself and your articles. Such a conflict is strongly discouraged. Your contributions to wikipedia under Scribbleman consist entirely of promoting Terje Raa / bootsnall.com / travellady.com and is considered WP:Spam. Looking through your contributions as a whole, the all seem to be Terje Raa/bootsnall.com/travellady.com related only. Please do not continue adding links to your own websites to Wikipedia. It has become apparent that your account are only being used for spamming inappropriate external links and for self-promotion. Wikipedia is NOT a "repository of links" or a "vehicle for advertising" and persistent spammers will have their websites blacklisted. Any further spamming may result in your account and/or your IP address being blocked from editing Wikipedia. Avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines. You're here to improve Wikipedia -- not just to promote yourself, right? --Hu12 13:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

March 2008 - Deleted many .com advertisement from commercial websites, including some not even related to Andalucia like yourmarbella.com. Enough, guys! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.127.14.10 (talk) 21:02, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

I deleted this: "a country invaded by Spain". Is that a joke? Andalusia is a autonomous community, not an "invaded country". I'm self sorry of my bad knowledge of English language. See ya. --Jamelgo (talk) 23:45, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

More jokes! "Mike Cofsky"?¿ The President of Andalusia is José Antonio Griñán. I changed it. --Jamelgo (talk) 23:47, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Adding material

I've started bringing over material from es-wiki, and will continue over the next week or so. Sadly, the article on the autonomous communities of Spain in es-wiki are, at best, B+ quality, but that's a lot better than what has been here. I'm doing my best to improve rather than merely translate; the result should be the bones of a decent article. I've already done this for Castile-La Mancha and Castile and León. - Jmabel | Talk 00:41, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Similarly to the Castile-La Mancha and Castile and León articles: it would be nice if someone found a solid citation for each statistic here (e.g. temperatures in the climate section). - Jmabel | Talk 03:59, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Odd phrase in es-wiki

In general, I've been able to cope with even a few rather odd wordings in es-wiki, but one that confuses me quite a bit is "...han justificado los intentos de reconversión de la flota pesquera." I've translated this rather literally (albeit with a change of verb tense) as "justifying attempts to convert the fishing fleet", but I'll be damned if I have any clarity as to what it means. Maybe a plan to buy up fishing boats and buy out fishing rights (speaking from local experience in a different part of the world)? Maybe something else? If anyone has a clue, please edit accordingly. And probably fix it in es-wiki as well. - Jmabel | Talk 06:11, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I know barely a word of Spanish, but I expect your guess is the right one. Sorry I can't help with the translation. hamiltonstone (talk) 22:41, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Dehesa Boyal

Also, can anyone shed light on the phrase Dehesa Boyal? I understand that it is a meadow for grazing livestock. Is it specific to cattle? Is it a commons? Is there anything more specific we can say about it? - Jmabel | Talk 06:22, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Dehesa is a type of pastureland usually with trees (oak) and scrub. "Boyal" comes from buey, so is specific to cattle (although lots of the land is multi use now). There's probably an article in it if you can find some sources - it's an important environment for a lot of Spain's wildlife. Yomangani ^talk 11:29, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

[2] "without scrub" apparently, shows what I know. Yomangani ^talk 11:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree on the etymology of boyal; the question was whether it is just etymology or remained meaningful in the actual way the land was used. Given the geography, it wouldn surprise me if cattle really were the main animals that grazed there. And yes, doubtless there should be an article in it, and in each of the many redlinks in this article, and in quite a few links that lead to stubs (especially cities), and probably almost every section here could be expanded to a main article. The English Wikipedia's coverage of Spain, outside of a few regions, has mostly not yet risen to the level of the encyclopedic. - Jmabel | Talk 05:31, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

My stomach tells me one of the main uses of dehesa is for fattening up pata negra (ñam ñam). That type of grazing for pigs isn't unusual in other countries: see pannage for example. Dehesas boyales are normally the common grazing grounds of a settlement for the use of just about any livestock, though where the culture has changed from subsistence farming they have become natural parks or recreational areas. (I can't think what you mean about the redlinks...apparently "There aren’t that many obvious topics left to write about" [3]) Yomangani ^talk 11:36, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Ortega y Gasset quotation

In the "Culture" section, I've done my best to translate a quotation from Ortega y Gasset; I've tried to strike a balance between the tone and the letter of the text, but it's really hard. For example, there really is no English word that translates malagueño, and his verb tense (using the present tense to speak of the past) is not so common in English. I'd be interested if someone else thinks they can do better, and do tell me if you think anything I did was really wrong. - Jmabel | Talk 05:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

I fiddled with it a little, but feel free to fiddle it back; malagueño is fine (I wouldn't have even put in the explanatory note), and I didn't like "The North sits up" to begin with, but it's grown on me since I started typing and now I think it is rather good. Yomangani ^talk 11:36, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

"The North sits up" is pretty literal (the original was El Norte se incorpora). In English, I might prefer "The North stands up", which would be more likely English, but doesn't connote that it was previously "lying down" (suggests more that it was previously sitting). This is the trickiest stuff about translation, to my mind: tradeoffs between the literal and the colloquial, between phrasing and ideas. With the prose of other Wikipedians, I'm almost always inclined to be colloquial in English and get the ideas across. With Ortega y Gasset, I'm not quite so bold: after all, we are claiming to quote him. - Jmabel | Talk 22:36, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Possible redundancy

There seems to be quite a bit of redundancy between cultural tourism & arts. I'm still translating the latter, but I suspect we could move the cultural material out of the tourism section and simply reference the arts section there. I'd like to finish translating the arts section first, though (I'm in the midst of it). - Jmabel | Talk 22:38, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I noticed the overlap yesterday, but left it alone. If you want to have a shot at integrating that material once you're finished with arts, that would be great. hamiltonstone (talk) 22:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Similar issues with agriculture and cuisine. I don't necessarily want to take on the integration, but I still have at least 2 more days of translation work here. What a monster. - Jmabel | Talk 01:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

OK, my only remaining translation work is the Sports section, which should be pretty separate, so if anyone wants to go after repetitions and/or reorganize the structure feel free. - Jmabel | Talk 07:19, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Species identification

Does anyone know precisely what species are the langostino de Sanlúcar (a type of prawn) and chanquete from Málaga (a type of small fish)? - Jmabel | Talk 01:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

The langostino de Sanlúcar is Penaeus kerathurus (it's the same species as a normal langostino but has the reputation of being better if it is caught near Sanlúcar). The chanquete is whitebait, but whether it is a generally a single species I don't know. They had to be imported from China because stocks were low a few years back, so I'd guess the imports weren't the same species. Still tasted nice though. Yomangani ^talk 03:13, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

"Culture"

I noticed that the hierarchy of sections I had as

Culture

Arts

Literature

...

Popular culture

...

has been changed

Art and culture

Arts

Literature

...

Culture

...

Although there might be a different, better approach, I think this is a step in the wrong direction. (1) The arts are part of culture. (2) The distinction I was making in "popular culture" was that of quotidian cultural practice - food and drink, festivals, religious practices - vs. deliberate artistic creativity.

Again, I'm open to other approaches, but I don't like this one. - Jmabel | Talk 06:03, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

That was me. I don't mind alternative approaches either, but there was material under "popular culture" that didn't seem to me to fit that description (regional language; mythology). My experience of "popular" at WP is that it denotes contemporary cultural references and practices that are not "high" culture (though my edit here suggest practice in other articles has been different again, where a classical painting had been included under "popular" culture). Perhaps we should revert to your original headings? hamiltonstone (talk) 06:12, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

"Popular" doesn't have to be recent; 15th century folk melodies are popular culture.

Anyway, I'd like to revert to my previous headings for the moment, unless someone wants to try working out how it really should be. I don't love it the way I had it, either, and would love to see someone come up with a better arrangement. - Jmabel | Talk 07:17, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Secondary sector: dubious edit

I just want to call everyone's attention to this edit in the section Secondary sector: industry. It looks to me like an introduction of machine-translated content from the es-wiki, content I had omitted when I translated the article because it was claiming a lot of precision with no sources. At the same time it was added, content was removed, and this also was wedged in before a footnote that for that other content, as if it cited for the new content. I leave it to someone else to decide exactly what to do with this, but for now I have left the material changes, but replaced the now misleading footnote with {{cn}}. - Jmabel | Talk 04:16, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Native or famous people

I removed the list of native or famous people from the end of the article. It deserves a better end than a stultifying list of local celebs. Yomangani ^talk 18:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Climate

I can't readily find it in the history but at some time in the last couple of months the following was dropped: "in the eastern province of Almería, averages over 20 °C (68 °F) are common (for example, 21.5 °C (70.7 °F) at Cuevas del Almanzora)". Seems to me that it belongs, but I leave it to someone else to sort out whether this removal was vandalism or whether something was wrong with it. - Jmabel | Talk 22:52, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

public transportation

lots of money went into transportation it says. However, it seems they missed to invest in public transportation as there is no info about buses and how to go around with them. That really missing IMO 217.125.189.101 (talk) 18:31, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

First dogs?

On 22 November 2012 an anonymous contributor added the statement "The first settlers probably brought the first dogs into the region." The relevance of this information is unclear. The first settlers undoubtedly brought dozens if not hundreds of the usual attributes of civilization with them, dogs being just one of these. What is so significant about dogs in this context? The sentence has been flagged with "citation needed"; maybe someone can add a source supporting the notability of this detail. Piperh (talk) 10:02, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Previous Comments

Hello, the image referred as: File:Tomato gazpacho.jpg|thumb|Gazpacho served with tropezones (chopped vegetables). in the Culture/Cuisine subsection is in fact an image os "salmorejo", another typical andalusian food (similar to gazpacho but only tomatoes, bread and garlic inside while gazpacho is more liquid and is made with many other vegetables). --47.61.216.50 (talk) 11:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Put frankly, this article sucks compared to the Spanish one. It would just be easier to translate the Spanish one. If I had the skills I would do it myself, but if anyone with any translating ability sees this, please do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by StackOfPostItNotes (talk • contribs) 01:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC) yup i agree get a life and do your research

I went ahead and removed a section that said "In Andalucia, there is a large homosexual population. Many men bend each other over on the great fountains in Granada." Didn't think I really needed a vote before I pulled that. Abrokenpuppet 15:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

This page is really bad. Someone has to work on it... Most of it is just random, irrelevant and sometimes plainly wrong info on andalusia. I think the whole thing should be erased and translated from the .es page.--83.52.25.80 22:20, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I am erasing the whole section on the origin of the word al andalus and the (unproven) theory of H. Helm. This should go in the section of etymology on the al andalus page. Here, it should suffice to say that "Andalucia" derives from the arabic "Al Andalus", a name which refered to the areas of the iberian peninsula under muslim control.--Burgas00 21:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Also erasing the reference to andalusia in Pixie song(??!?). --83.52.25.80 22:20, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I just re-erased the Pixie song reference. Who is the moron who keeps putting this up? I agree that the Spanish version should be translated here... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.223.101 (talk) 19:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I added an internal link to Tartessos which holds an important place in the history of Andalusia. Frederick Boca 23:27, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wasn't it named after the Vandals, i.e. Vandalusia?

See Al-Andalus for discussion of etymology. GCarty 08:39, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Tarshish , mentioned in the story of Jonah is a mythical land. Most of the geography in this Book is eg, Niniveh -hundreds of miles inland has a seashore in Jonah, The reference to Spain is a pleasant romance only, Tarshish was far away Spain was at the edge of the worls so they must be the same place