Talk:Ancient Roman units of measurement/Archive 4

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Why no Stadium unit of length?

Pliny talks of a stadium in Book II and calls it 625 feet. Why is there mention of this unit here? the table on lengths correctly lists the STADIA at 625 roman pes or feet somehow the length is calculate incorrectly according to your table the Roman foot is 296 mm (Berriman gives 296.3 mm) in any case 625 x 0.296 is 185 meters and not 190.5 as shown Also the Parthenon according to Nicholas Kollerstrom, Ph.D. is supposed to be 100 attic feet or 30.897 meters wide therefore the attic stadia of 600 attic feet would equal 185.382 meters if both the attic and roman stadia are equal then the roman foot = 296.66 mm in any case 190.5 meters is WRONG Roland Boucher rolandfly@sbcglobal.net

The 190.5 measure would be compatible with an Olympic stadion, a special unit used for foot races.

Measured fields define the property of landowners from the Sumerians onward. Property tends to be defined by contract and international treaty so its been stable and international for the last 4,000 years.

The Greek root stadios means 'to have standing'(as a landowner). Early on Stadions are used to measure the sides of fields and are related to both body measures such as feet and agricultural measures such as yards and paces. 600 Greek feet or pous of 308.5 mm are the same as 625 Roman feet or pes of 296 mm. In England up until the time of Queen Elizabeth the Roman units were the standard. There are 600 to a degree of 111 km. For the Persians a degree of 111km was divided into 500 stadia of 222 Remen. In Egypt horses were used for warfare from the time of the Hyksos but fields continued to be plowed with oxen until the time of the Romans. Once fields were plowed with horses the half acre khet of 100 Royal cubits to a side or acre setat of 2 khet became a combination of three fields 300 royal cubits by 100 royal cubits with one left fallow. 300 royal cubits of 525 mm measured 157.5 mm, the Egyptian minute of march with 700 minutes of march being 110.25 km.

Whether we are talking 4800 Greek pous or 5000 Roman pes or English Fote to a Myle the measure is 8 stadions or stadiums or furlongs until Queen Elizabeth changes the length of a furlong from 625 to 660 English feet making a mile of 5280 feet such that there were twice as many seconds in a century as there were inches in the circumference of the Earths Great Circle.

The Sumerians measured in hands of 100 mm such that there were 300 mm in a foot, 500 mm in a cubit, 600 mm in a great cubit and 1000mm in a double cubit or nibu. The Egyptians and Romans measured in palms, the Greeks and Persians used hands. The foot measure of three hands (fifteen fingers) or four palms (16 fingers) was nominally 300 mm though it varied from 308.4 mm to 296 mm depending on which system was chosen.

In the time of Herodotus, the standard Attic stadion used for distance measure is 600 pous of 308.4 mm equal to 185 m. so that 600 stadia equal one degree and are combined at 8 to a mia chilioi or thousand which measures the boustredon or path of yoked oxen as a distance of a thousand orguia, taken as one orguia wide which in Egypt Herodotus tells us defines an aroura or thousand of land and at 10 agros or chains equal to one nautical mile of 1850 m. (10 stadions or stadiums)

Several centuries later, Marinus and Ptolemy used 500 stadia to a degree, but their stadia were composed of 600 Remen of 370 mm and measured 222 m, so the measuRement of the degree was the same.

The same is also true for Eratosthenes, who used 700 stadia of 157.5 m or 300 Egyptian royal cubits to a degree, and for Aristotle, Posidonius, and Archimedes, whose stadia likewise measured the same degree.

1 plethron (pl. plethra) = 100 podes, a cord measure

1 stadion (pl. stadia) = 6 plethra = 600 podes ≈ 185 m

1 diaulos (pl. diauloi) = 2 stadia, only used for the Olympic footrace introduced in 724 BC

1 dolikhos = 6 or 12 diauloi. Only used for the Olympic foot race introduced in 720 BC

1 parasanges = 30 stadia ≈ 5.5 km. Persian measure used by Xenophon, for instance

1 skhoinos (pl. skhoinoi, lit. "reefs") = 60 stadia ≈ 11.1 km (usually), based on Egyptian river measure iter or atur

1 stathmos = 25 km, one day's journey, 320,000 palms

75 Greek (thousands of orquia) mia chilios or Roman (thousands of paces) miliare = 111 km = 1 degree of the Earths Great Circle

12.187.95.244 (talk) 15:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Pes quadratus is volume, not area

There is an error in the article: it says that pes quadratus is a measure of area (square foot). In fact, the names are as follows: pes = foot (length), pes constratus = square foot (area), pes quadratus = cubic foot (volume). Pliny says pes quadratus to be equal to three modii, which makes about 26 liters, i.e. a quadrantal. 212.87.13.78 (talk) 09:04, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

If you can cite a reliable (modern) source for this, please do. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:53, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Dictionaries suggest quadratus means "square" and constratus means "thatched". That doesn't really match with the meanings you ascribe. I second the previous comment, that reliable sources are required.

{"A collection of voyages and travels"]Awnsham Churchill, ‎John Churchill, ‎John Locke - 1744 "pes porreftus; next, pes conslratas, or as "' Agricola reads it, contraflus; and lastly, pes quadratus. The first was the measure of longitudes, the other two of superfices. Frontinus, In pedes corralo semipedes duo,(two Roman feet, the square of the semipes)in pedes constrato semipedes quator (was the square of the Roman foot thus its perimeter measured four pes), in pedes quadrato oile similarly. Its area. 12.187.94.209 (talk) 11:36, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

As I read it, this means that pes quadratus is a measure of "superficies", i.e., area. Rwflammang (talk) 16:56, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Anyone cared to see Pliny? -89.65.254.38 (talk) 17:56, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

I always care to see Pliny. Any particular part of Pliny I should look at? Rwflammang (talk) 00:46, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

I do not know about Pliny, but here is what Balbus gromaticus seems to say about it (Expositio et Ratio Omnium Formarum, 96.8, 96.10, 96.13): Pes prostratus sic obseruabitur: ducis longitudinem per latitudinem, facit embadon (i.e. aream). Pes quadratus sic obseruabitur: longitudinem per latitudinem metiemur, deinde per crassitudinem: et sic efficit pedes solidos. Pes quadratus concauus capit amforam trimodiam.

So, according to this, pes prostratus is the square foot and pes quadratus is the cubic foot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.205.167.254 (talk) 12:06, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Well, clearly Balbus, whoever he was, used pes quadratus to mean a cubic foot. This source mentions also Frontinus as using quadratus to mean "cubed". It also mentions constratus as meaning square in some cases. However, the dictionaries seem unanimous in defining pes quadratus as square foot, so it is not correct to say that it is an "error" to say pes quadratus means square foot. Some mention should be made that it can sometimes mean a unit of volume. Rwflammang (talk) 01:07, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

If Balbus the surveyor is not enough, here is Festus (258): "Quadrantal vocabant antiqui, quam ex Graeco amphoram dicunt, quod vas pedis quadrati octo et XL capit sextarios" (nb. what do you think, why this unit is named quadrantal?) Not enough? Cicero ND 1.24: "at mihi (sc. forma) vel cylindri vel quadrati vel coni vel pyramidis videtur esse formosior". The dictionaries quote this under quadratum/quadratus (OLD, p. 1530) and under constratus we find Balbus again: "Planum est quod Graeci epipedon appellant, nos constratos pedes" (OLD, p. 421). It is true that Columella, Vitruvius and many others use pes quadratus in the meaning of "square foot", but not taking into account that it apparently also means cubic foot, and that then the square foot is named pes constratus/prostratus, is clearly an error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.205.167.254 (talk) 10:57, 3 November 2016 (UTC)