Talk:Ancestry of Elizabeth II

Citation #1

Citation #1 uses a book that offers no sources for its statements regarding Elizabeth's various ethnic heritages. Probably not a valid source.24.209.172.55 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:59, 16 May 2012 (UTC).

Queen's ancestors at Redbourn, Hertfordshire

I am a professional genealogist. There is an error on the main page concerning #102 who is stated to be one Frederick Walsh. That is to say, the father of #51 Charlotte Jane Sarah Walsh.

Frederick Walsh was not her father. He was in fact her brother. #51 was in fact (confusingly) the sister of #99 Mary Elizabeth Walsh, and therefore the daughter of #198 John Walsh.

This means that the Queen's great grandfather Claude, 13th Earl of Strathmore (&c) was the product of close cousins. His father was the great grandson of John Walsh and his mother was the granddaughter of John Walsh.

I apologise in advance for the length of this section, but I know if I don't explain this fully the changes that I wish to make are likely to be reversed.

The will of the Queen's ancestor John Walsh was proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury (PCC) on 21st March 1822 (PROB 11/1655/171). A copy of this will can be downloaded online from the National Archives for a small fee.

The will states that he is "John Walsh ... of Redbourn in the County of Hertford ... now residing in Surry (sic), Gentleman".

The will runs to several pages and is remarkable in that it is written without the usual legal dryness.

John Walsh names in this document, among others:

"Francis Delaval, Esquire who married my eldest daughter"

his son Frederick Walsh "to whom the greatest misfortunes of my life are imputable". Frederick was cut out of his father's will completely. John Walsh also said of him, among other things "I did on his marriage give him a much larger estate than I now possess the only return for which has been the most shocking ingratitude."

John Walsh also clearly named:

"my daughter Charlotte the wife of Joseph Valentine Grimstead" "my granddaughter Charlotte, elder daughter of Joseph Valentine Grimstead and my daughter Charlotte"

(break)

His elder daughter was mentioned only briefly. She was in fact Mary Elizabeth Walsh, baptised on 18th May 1758 at St Luke, Chelsea. Her mother was Elizabeth.

Mary Elizabeth Walsh was married at St George Hanover Square, Westminster on 15th September 1779 to George Carpenter "of Redbourn in the county of Hertford, Esq". George Carpenter was an ageing, but wealthy bachelor. He died not long after the marriage. His will (a copy of which can also easily be obtained fom the National Archives) was proved in the PCC on 12th November 1782, having been drawn up only three days previously when Carpenter was clearly very close to death. He mentions his wife and "the child my wife is now big with". This child was Mary Elizabeth Louisa Rodney Carpenter who was clearly born after her father's death.

On 25th June 1783, less than a year after her husband's death Mary Elizabeth Carpenter (nee Walsh) married, again at St George Hanover Square, Francis Delaval, Esquire. She was described this time as a "widow of Redbourn in Hertfordshire".

On 25th March 1800 at St George Hanover Square, the Hon. Thomas Bowes married Mary Elizabeth Louisa Rodney Carpenter who was described as a "minor" (ie, under 21) of Redbourn in Hertfordshire. The marriage, it was stated was with the consent of her mother "Mary Elizabeth Delaval, the wife of Francis Delaval, the mother and guardian" ... as "appointed in and by the last will of her father George Carpenter, Esq ... the natural and lawful father of the said minor".

John Walsh's daughter Charlotte Sarah Jane Walsh for her part was married to Joseph Valentine Grimstead on 2nd September 1788 at Esher. Joseph was described as being "of Leatherhead". Their children, including Charlotte Grimstead were christened at Leatherhead. Charlotte Jane Sarah Walsh was probably born in the late 1760s, but of her birth I have seen no record. She was living at Redbourn at the time of her decease in 1848.

Frederick, the brother who is usually erroneously described as Charlotte Sarah Jane Walsh's father was born circa 1765. he died in London in 1839 and was buried at Kensal Green on 9th march 1839 apparently aged 76. He married Harriet Frances Brown at St Pancras on 24th July 1795. John2o2o2o (talk) 12:21, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Probably better to add a citation to the Genealogists' Magazine article by Davies where this was covered in detail in 2011, so I have done that. Ejdguiseley (talk) 13:31, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Ok, well, I discovered it before 2011 anyway. I haven't seen the article in the Genealogists Magazine (I don't subscribe to it.) And I resent the implication that I may have have copied this from someone else. Particularly as it was me that made the correction. This is original research. I would be pleased if I were given due credit, thank you!! John2o2o2o (talk) 10:04, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Davies of course had been researching the issue for quite some time before the article was published and was aware of the discrepancy in Charlotte's parentage at least as early as 2003. Ejdguiseley (talk) 18:40, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I have tried to add my name to the references, but I cannot see how to do it. I am extremely annoyed that Mr Davies has been credited with this in this way. I discovered it in 2008. John2o2o2o (talk) 12:35, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources, users should not add their own name or their own original research to articles. DrKay (talk) 12:40, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Mary Garritt

I have removed from the main page the comment regarding Mary "Garritt" (sic) as it is not a foregone conclusion that this woman cannot be traced. She has not thus far been traced, but that does not mean that she cannot be traced. John2o2o2o (talk) 12:33, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't say she cannot be traced, nor does it preclude further discoveries in the future. DrKay (talk) 12:37, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Ancestry tree

I have created a new template called {{Ahnentafel-tree}} that will create a family tree up to 511 Ahnentafel places. It calls {{family tree}} so it does not look like the usual presentation familiar to those who use the Ahnentafel templates listed in {{Ahnentafel/doc}}. However it does allow all 9 generations listed here to appear in a tree.

I have replaced the template {{ahnentafel-compact6}} with {{Ahnentafel-tree}} the former only displayed the first six generations the new display displays all 9 in the ahnentafel list (diff).

All I have done is take the list and place it in the template. Quite a lot of the text inside the list is now redundant, as there is no need to state (father of num) or (mother of num) as the tree does that by association. However I will leave that for someone else to clean up.

-- PBS (talk) 00:17, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Multiple of unsourced additions

I reverted multiple of unsourced additions to a family tree of a living person (WP:BLP). 86.181.49.123 what are your sources for this information? -- PBS (talk) 08:33, 10 November 2017 (UTC)