Talk:Anatinae/Archive 1

Archive 1

Merge Dabbling Duck here

I have found no paper really (robustly) suggesting that diving and dabbliung ducks belong to the same monophyletic clade. Even Livezey's 1986 morphological study is fairly equivocal on the subject; the diving ducks formed a distinct clade there and the dabbling ducks simply could not be resolved well enough to stand out. Genetically, they appear very distinct. Since the split of the Aythyinae (diving duck subfamily) makes the dabbling duck article redundant, and since the Anatidae phylogeny is obviously so badly resolved as regards e.g. the steamer ducks to make a thorough revision in the more recent future fairly likely, ease of maintaining robust (or as robust as they get) systematics on WP clearly warrants the merge: by now, a genus change in an Anas species, say the Baikal Teal which is probably a monotypic genus, would require no less than 4-5 page edits, which is quite a lot... Dysmorodrepanis 21:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

MERGE IT!

Anas diazi

Anas diazi is a species or a subspecies of the species Anas platyrhynchos? I think that is a species. Results of Google search:

"Anas diazi" = 1.270 results
"Anas platyrhynchos" = 164 results

Mario and Dario 15:32, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wildfowl by Madge and Burn, ISBN 0-7470-2201-1 says that Mexican Duck was formerly considered a good species, but hybridisation with Mallard has introduced genes from that species into diazi, and the taxonomic status is consequently compromised. jimfbleak 16:18, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It should be considered a good species; hybridization in Anas is not a valid indicator of species limits. The entire mallard group (Anas sensu stricto) is able to produce fertile hybrids among each other; see also Mariana Mallard and Pacific Black Duck. The mtDNA analyses of Johnson & Sorenson (1999) indicated that the mallard belongs to an Asian/Pacific clade in Anas which is distinct from the North American clade (Mexican, American Black and Mottled Ducks). Interestingly, their paper (which I have linked n times in the last 2 days) also made the Mallard polyphyletic as they found some mallard DNA sequences which were close to the North American clade - but this is just an indicator of previous hybridization. The mating mechanisms of Anas (females at least more oftne than not preferring spectacularly-colored males; males highly polygamous) makes hybridization a given, and the rapid spread and speciation of the mallard group (a global radiation in the last million years at most) happened so quickly and so recently that the only things that maintain species limits are behavior, the species being genetically nearly 100% compatible.

Unfortunately for the Mexican Duck, it is so rare by now that hybridization with the mallard threatens to "swamp" the unique genotypes it possesses. The New Zealand Black Duck is a similar case. As the genotypes are not lost, only the phenotypes, and the result will rather be a genetic equilibrium more or less representative of the proportion of mallards to purebred Mexican Ducks in the common gene pool, the remedy would be fairly easy: hunt male mallards in nuptial plumage only, and captive-breed "pure" Mexican Ducks for release. The hybridization process cannot be avoided, it is in fact fairly natural; as soon as mallards (which apparently evolved in Western Asia/Europe) came to North America it was hybridization time all over the place. What could (and probably should) be reverted is the original decline of the Mexican Duck. The hybridization phenomenon exists just the same in the Mottled and American Black Ducks as it does in the Mexican Duck - only that the former are plentiful enough so it does not really matter. Dysmorodrepanis 21:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Classification of Marbled Duck

Hi, if the Marbled Duck has been reclassified, the article should be updated as well. --Kjoonlee 17:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Done. Dysmorodrepanis 21:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Puddle Ducks?

The introduction speaks of dabbling ducks, but the text lower down uses puddle ducks. is the latter the American term? If no adverse comment I shall change puddle to dabbling. The Yowser (talk) 15:42, 5 August 2010 (UTC)