Talk:Amy Soranno

This article was nominated for deletion on 20 August 2021. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Recent edits and sourcing

Regarding this large group of edits by Mobrac04, there are a couple problems. The minor issue, is syntax, which is fixable, and not a big deal, but I suggest that if you're learning the syntax, it's best to go slow, and not keep doing more edits, until you can fix the syntax errors. I haven't fixed them myself yet, because there's been a lot of changes, that it takes time to go over. Next, is the issue of sourcing. Per our policy on reliable sources we can not use advocacy or non-independent sources. So, sentientmedia.org is not a reliable source of facts. I'm resisting the strong urge to revert the recent edits, and give some time to a new user to clean things up, and in future I'll try to fix things, without just doing a big revert. I'm sure there's some good in the edits, but its hard sorting it out. Rob (talk) 17:52, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry. I am brand new and was trying hard to learn. I got hyper focused and stayed up most of the night trying to figure it all out. I was likely focusing harder on how to input everything than syntax. Maybe I can dig up better sources. I initially wanted to figure out how to contact you to do these edits. I should’ve done that. I apologize. Mobrac04 (talk) 18:59, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t want to create undue stress and extra work for you. Can I attempt to fix it today or would you prefer to do it? I will remove sentient and, hopefully, find another source for her speech. Mobrac04 (talk) 19:03, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, she has given speeches at the University of British Columbia and in Toronto. In those speeches she mentions other things she has participated in, such as a duck farm lockdown in California. She is known for her public speaking on civil disobedience. That isn’t mentioned yet it seems to be her focus. How can criminal activity be properly sourced? Perhaps it can be handled differently in these types of cases? Mobrac04 (talk) 19:34, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll personally give you time to improve the article, before delving in. Other editors are free to do as they wish (nobody owns the article). Please look around other articles, particularly similar articles, and see how they work, see the syntax. You're edits are welcome, and I don't want to discourage you. The most important thing is to avoid any source that is connected to, or bias to the subject. So, animal rights groups would all be considered bias, just as a farm organization, or company she's protesting against would be deemed bias. and unusable. It's sometimes disappointing, but in general, if you're personally familiar with a subject, you'll find that a majority of information you know personally know to be true, can never be included in Wikipedia, because it isn't covered sufficiently be independent reliable sources. Rob (talk) 20:02, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for this advice. I appreciate it. I will slow down, and focus on it, over the next couple days. Mobrac04 (talk) 22:01, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I notice there hasn't been any edits since the above discussion. I (or somebody) will need to revert the changes made, if the syntax errors, and issues with sources aren't addressed. However, please note, that all of your changes will remain in edit history, so none of your work will be lost. -Rob (talk) 01:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I got pulled away from this today, due to a family emergency. I have time blocked off tomorrow to solely focus on it. I haven’t just reverted it to leave it that way. The edits will be done. I apologize for not getting back to it sooner. Mobrac04 (talk) 04:39, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Are video sources permitted to ‘place’ her at a location, even if there isn’t a written story to back it up? For instance, she was in a dxe video about a maple leaf foods protest in Toronto. She had her arm cemented to something. Mobrac04 (talk) 19:19, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, that would be original research, which Wikipedia does not allow. You need a reliable source to explicitly name her and state the facts you wish to include. You could theoretically, use a video of a source, if the video was published (permanently publicly available in fixed form) from a reliable source, that explicitly state the relevant facts. However, if the source isn't reliable, than it doesn't matter what format it's in, it can never be used. If you're referring to Direct Action Everywhere, then that could never be used as a source, as they are not independent. Rob (talk) 19:54, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sources again ...

Thank you for all the help. One last question. What about videos that she has posted to youtube? I saw one in which it is just her talking. In that video she describes a bit about what she does. Also, with regards to speech’s, they are all likely going to be posted within groups associated with her cause or in her own social media. Such as the one I wrote about, which was at a vegan festival. It seems a shame to not even mention that she gives speeches and workshops. She also emphasizes civil disobedience as an activism tactic. How would you mention that? Is there any way to do it? On her own admission she does a lot of illegal things so it’s unlikely we will find solid sources. Maybe there will be very little we can even say about her and I made a mistake updating the page. I am curious, what led you to create a page on her? I heard her speech in Victoria and just recently saw her court case mentioned in the news. When I googled her I saw that the page didn’t include that info and so I thought maybe this is my beginning at editing. I became overwhelmed with how to input the citations, and I regretted what I had started. But I felt like I was so far in that I better just hurry up and do what I was going to do. I have felt like an idiot today but I will work on the page and hopefully redeem myself. Please tell me though, did I step on toes ? Mobrac04 (talk) 04:52, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There's actually nothing special here. It's a regular fact that most info about a person isn't covered in a way that allows Wikipedia to cover it. I'm not sure why you feel there's a shortage of sources. The original version of the article had 14 different sources, most regarding her activism, including her civil disobedience actions such as chaining to a bank, or trespassing on a hog farm. The original article said plenty, mentioning her publicized health problems on top of activism. I'm sorry you had difficulties here. That's partly because I exhaustively searched the internet, and library services, for good sources before I wrote the article. So basically, I picked the "low hanging fruit" already. With the pandemic, there's not a lot that happened since then.

Since you asked, I happened to write an article, on this topic because I happened to have taken a picture in a parade of her as "Princess Silver Star" (later replaced with better image). I thought, maybe I'll do some research, and see if she got coverage for that, and maybe other titles. But, that was a dead end. I didn't find enough pageant related content to warrant an article (if I tried it would be deleted). But, then, I found all the other stuff. The vast majority of time I see if I can write an article on a public person, I find there aren't enough sources to write anything.

The key take away: follow the sources. Start researching a topic looking for all the good sources you can, then write/update content based on those sources. Generally, don't start with facts you personally know and try to find sources. --Rob (talk) 10:25, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing as of sept

I haven't gone over everything, but I did remove this because it messed up the references, and when I clicked on the link, my browser wanted to save a file to my computer. Not sure why we're linking to cityofberkley website, anyhow. As for YouTube, we should not be using videos of something to show that something happened. That's original research. Unless the video is to a reliable source reporting in a video (e.g. CBC News, etc...), a YouTube video link is inappropriate, as it is original research. Regarding this statement in the edit summary, there is no "exception" to any rules if somebody calls themselves an investigator. If the only people covering something are those involved, then we just can't cover it. An example of something that could be added is this from Sep 3 that covers new charges, and a speech by Soranno. -Rob (talk) 06:22, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]