Talk:Amund Dietzel

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A fact from Amund Dietzel appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 22 July 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Amund Dietzel (pictured), sometimes called the "Rembrandt of the rind", learned to tattoo after he went to sea at the age of 14?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/July. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Amund Dietzel.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Z1720 (talk) 18:03, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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Dietzel in 1914

... that Amund Dietzel, the first professional tattoo artist in Milwaukee, learned to tattoo after he went to sea at age 14? Source: Shepherd Express, 2010: "After his father’s death, Dietzel joined one of Norway’s merchant fleets at the age of 14." + OnMilwaukee, 2013: "Finding no one tattooing here, the man a newspaper dubbed the "Rembrandt of the rind" saw an opportunity and set up shop in a number of Downtown locations over the years"
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Eliane Morissens

Created by Dreamyshade (talk). Self-nominated at 01:32, 19 June 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Thank you for writing the article on an interesting bloke. The image is super and I would like to see it run with the article. I am asking for a license check with another editor but it is now labeled as public domain. The QPQ is done, the article is new and long enough. The hook is interesting and verified. The article uses the correct inline citations and there are no copyright issues. We have to work (pictured) into the hook, but that comma is holding me back from inserting it. Bruxton (talk) 20:54, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @Dreamyshade and Bruxton: out of an abundance of caution, I'm going to raise concerns with ALT0 – we've had a lot of hooks claiming that something was the "first" or "only" erroneously. First, exceptional claims require exceptional sources, and I don't think that onmilwaukee.com is really reputable enough to make that claim to my satisfaction. It does cite a published book, but I can't access it – I can't say I trust it completely, but I'd be interested to see what it says. More broadly, though, getting to a city and finding no tattoo artists doesn't mean that he was the first. Either he didn't himself find any, which could well mean that there were tattoo artists out of his sight, or there actually weren't any at the time, which still means that it's possible there was a tattoo artist in milwaukee who just closed up shop before he got there. Either way, the phrasing doesn't imply that he was first. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:57, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Fair! Unfortunately the authoritative books about Dietzel by Jon Reitel are not easy to find; I don't have access to them myself. Here are a couple alts for consideration. Dreamyshade (talk) 06:10, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1: ... that Amund Dietzel, sometimes called the "Rembrandt of the Rind", learned to tattoo after he went to sea at age 14?
ALT2: ... that Amund Dietzel, a tattoo artist who worked in Milwaukee from 1913–1967, influenced the American traditional tattoo style?
- Coolcool! Happy to tick ALT1 as cited and interesting, but ALT2 is both a little dryer and cited to researchgate (which sometimes does preprints). theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 08:44, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks! ALT1 is my preference too - gives a better hint of the colorful life Dietzel led. I'll update that citation with the ResearchGate link though, since I checked again and it looks like there's a better PDF link straight from the publisher. Dreamyshade (talk) 15:20, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

News clippings over the years

Same guy above- see his Find a Grave He was married to Elsie... Bruxton (talk) 02:52, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh sweet, thanks! A few weeks ago I put in an application to the Wikipedia Library for Newspapers.com access, but I'm still waiting to hear back; glad to incorporate these. Dreamyshade (talk) 02:51, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dreamyshade: ping me when you add any of the references to the article, and I will review for the DYK. Bruxton (talk) 15:19, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Bruxton: Thanks, added several of them! The Waukesha and Green Bay articles were essentially duplicates, and I'm honestly not sure how to contextualize the weird articles about him wanting to tattoo the faces of dictators. Dreamyshade (talk) 19:31, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dreamyshade: Right some articles treat him like a carnival freak show, but that is the appeal. I think he also made the claim that he had tattooed more people than anyone else in the US. i am not sure we can use the image of him unless you can show that it was published and I can check the license. The image would make this a smashing success at DYK. for those very carnival reasons. Bruxton (talk) 19:38, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like the image is part of Reiter's collection (see caption here) and was included in These Old Blue Arms: The Life and Work of Amund Dietzel - that book would probably provide more information about the photo's original publication date, but I don't have a copy of the book. Dreamyshade (talk) 19:56, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dreamyshade: Check out this see this ref. I did not evaluate it but it totally, but they say he actually did travel as a carnival act. It also says: His first marriage ended in divorce and a second wife died of tuberculosis. A third marriage to Elsie Koehler lasted 50 years and produced a daughter. A fourth marriage to a family friend took place around 1970 when Dietzel was well into senior citizenship. He died four years later. Bruxton (talk) 20:37, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Bruxton: Yes, from several sources I've read (all based on Reitel's research, I believe), he was a traveling performer in circuses and carnivals before he settled in Milwaukee! I still can't find any information about when these photos were published - could have been promotional material distributed by Dietzel in 1914, could have been stashed away in the box. I think we'd have to email Reitel to find out. Dreamyshade (talk) 20:47, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

i am checking, but also there will be more eyes on it in DYK. Bruxton (talk) 20:48, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]