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Talk:Ban Fang district

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Requested move

[edit]
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved Cybercobra (talk) 07:40, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Amphoe Ban Fang → Ban Fang District — Relisted - this could do with more discussion. 81.111.114.131 (talk) 16:53, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This was previously discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Thai districts#Naming of articles and more recently at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Thailand-related articles)/Draft#Naming of settlements, but the discussions didn't see much input. The rationale is so as be compliant with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names), the latter of which states Names of classes of places follow the same guidance: do what English does. In particular, when dealing with administrative subdivisions, we write of Russian oblasts and the Moscow Oblast, but of Chinese and Roman provinces, not sheng or provinciae. It is therefore proposed here that district is the accepted English translation of amphoe, and should be used in article titles. If consensus is to move, I'm hoping this will serve as a precedent to move the other nine hundred or so amphoe articles. Paul_012 (talk) 06:16, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]


I prefer to let sleeping dogs lie. What makes "district" a better translation than county, which begs the question, why not translate "tambon" as township as in townships of Burma? AWhat would you do with 79 Amphoe Meuang articles - change them to "Name" City District? --Pawyilee (talk) 12:41, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
See also
I suggest this discussion be moved to Talk:Amphoe Proposed move. --Pawyilee (talk) 12:55, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Procedurally, move requests are discussed on the talk pages of the articles to be moved, and I don't see any benefit of moving the discussion over there. Links from the Wikipedia:Requested Moves point here following template placement, and cannot easily be changed.
As for why district and subdistrict rather than other terms, that's simply because they are the official, accepted and simply put, correct translations, as seen from the Consulate General in Chicago's website. The "sleeping dog" in this case may still trip people up, since we have <Name> Province articles, not Changwat <Name>, and this causes inconsistency. Amphoe Mueang Khon Kaen may be Mueang Khon Kaen District or Mueang District, Khon Kaen Province. I'm not sure which yet. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:29, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Should not be "Mueang District", since there are 4 districts which have a name with Mueang but are not the capital district of a province. For the capital districts, the Mueang is part of the name, so technically "Mueang Khon Kaen District" is correct. Another source for the translation "district" is the book Thai-English Transcription of Changwat, Amphoe, King Amphoe and Tambon. ISBN 978-974-7857-04-7. provided by the Royal Institute. andy (talk) 17:00, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You could change article names, ar alternatively, establish redirects where they don't already exist, in this pattern:

  • Khon Kaen City
  • Khon Kaen City District
  • Khon Kaen Province

You'd really rouse a lot of howling dogs if you mess with Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya, but again redirects would work in this pattern:

  • Ayutthaya City
  • Ayutthaya City District
  • Ayutthaya Kingdom
  • Ayutthaya Province

You're also talking about making changes at Administrative divisions of Thailand and at Amphoe, whether you settle on massive name changes or simple redirects. Muban also needs work. They are only collectively referred to as Muban; individually, they are Mu # whatever, as mine is Mu 5. It is incorrect to translate Muban as village. Ban is usually translated village, but really means home. Also, a group of homes is usually said to number so many roofs, and not so many homes or ban. My village of Ban Sadao consists of Mu 5, 6 & 13, each with its own phuyaiban, and other villages typically consist of two or more numbered mu, each with its own phuyaiban. Also, the village name is NOT an official part of a home address, though I usually include mine in my return mail address. Bang is a special case in Central Thailand that I've never encounted in Isan. Bang means haven and was a village located on a waterway where small boats could find a haven. Bang Kok was one such, with kok meaning either plum or olive. --Pawyilee (talk) 07:14, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Let's keep discussion limited to the issue at hand: whether to rename amphoe articles or not. We should have redirects either way; it's the names reflected in article titles that are of concern. It should not necessary to dig up etymology of terms, since it's not ours to decide; we should simply follow the established usage. --Paul_012 (talk) 07:35, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename them, and keep redirects from the amphoe versions. Agree that discussion should be limited to proposal at hand. Honestly, it's just not relevant here and now what a bang is vs. a ban, and so on, and getting into all that detailia is a classic slippery slope fallacy. If English-language reliable sources provide "District" in place of "Amphoe" in these place names, then Wikipedia prefers "District", by long-standing precedent. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 08:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Based on the evidence above that "district" is the official translation, this is IMO a clear-cut case of WP:UE. 81.111.114.131 (talk) 16:53, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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