Talk:Amoy dialect

This article has no citations, and parts of its understanding of min nan as a language group are mistaken.

As one who grew up in Quanzhou, went to school in Xiamen, worked in Taiwan, and now continues to switch between the US and Xiamen, I know for a fact that Amoy is not considered a prestige dialect within the min nan language group. No, I will not cite my sources, but neither did the one who claimed that Amoy was. One could hardly say that Amoy has 10 million speakers (which was, once again, not cited). The Xiamen region in itself has residents from all over the country, most of whom are from all over Fujian, as Xiamen is a city of major economic growth. Amoy as a dialect is closely related to the Quanzhou dialect, with distinct Zhangzhou influences. In general, the min nan spoken in even outlying regions of major cities may have tiny to large differences. Most speakers of the min nan dialect residing in Fujian refer to it as the min nan dialect. Linguists may try to define a "prestige dialect" (though none of those who are claimed to "widely regard" Amoy as the one are cited), but in the mind of min nan speakers, there is no "prestige dialect", although you will find that those from their respective regions will be largely biased towards their own as the better one. Even if there was one, I could hardly see why Amoy would be it. Read Prestige (sociolinguistics) for more reasons why. For that reason, I have removed the remark from the article claiming that Amoy is "widely regarded" as the prestige language. In the eyes of one who has grown up, lived, and interacted in Fujian and Taiwan, I believe this assertion to be made by someone with a very heavy bias towards his or her hometown. Xiamen natives are very proud, and they have good reason to be, but it doesn't allow them to speak for the min nan speaking populace. -Luo Q.

P.S.

Google "Amoy prestige dialect". You will find dozens of articles that have directly copied this Wikipedia page, including the line that Amoy is widely regarded as a prestige dialect. It's sad how the opinion of one, unchecked (and uncited), can be ubiquitously regarded as fact, when it appears on Wikipedia. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

Ironically, your opinion that Amoy is not the prestige dialect is also an uncited, unchecked opinion of one (you). The wording "prestige dialect" is not my opinion (I'm the original author). I copied it from The Ethnologue report for Chinese, Min Nan. I didn't cite the statement because I didn't want to spend a lot of time citing every single statement in the article. It would have been difficult to know at the time which statements would eventually be challenged. However, I did include a references section, and the above link was (and is) included in the original draft. For future reference, if you wish to challenge the wording in an article, you can place a {{cite}} tag next to the questionable wording. That way, you're not unintentionally impuning the motives of the original author of the statement. -- A-cai (talk) 11:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposal for new Hanji-based Hokkien Wikipedia

Please leave comments at [1].

122.109.171.138 (talk) 04:48, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

move

No, Amoy was never discussed on the Teochew talk page. While Min Nan might be broken up into separate languages, that would stop with Hokkien. No-one would claim that Amoy is anything but a dialect of Hokkien. kwami (talk) 17:56, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Page Moves Needed

A number of pages related to this article (list here) need to be moved to another title or namespace per Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Subpages, which says that we shouldn't use the slash character to indicate a hierachy, nor subpage. I would reccomend they be moved to the Talk namespace as one of the subpages to this page. 71.200.39.246 (talk) 05:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the point of those pages is, but they're not articles, and the naming conventions apply to articles. kwami (talk) 08:15, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

But if they aren't articles, they shouldn't be in the article namespace. The subpage feature has been disabled for the article namespace. (WP:SUB) 71.200.39.246 (talk) 15:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Maybe they were sandbox pages? I'll ask Acai. kwami (talk) 20:34, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

The pages should not be deleted. They are not sandbox pages. The pages provide a way to present each respective section in various formats without the main article becoming overly bloated. -- A-cai (talk) 12:50, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I guess we put them wherever we like, then. kwami (talk) 12:51, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Differences between minnan variants

Differences between amoy and minnan variants has been moved to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_Nan

as it is more appropriate to list the different minnan variants there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.73.10.66 (talk) 02:19, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

needsIPAthruout

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2. sanditabl needs mor xplantn--pl.note:i'v[[RSI]]>typin=v.v.hard4me!>contactme thruMSNpl.if unclear[sven70=alias (talk) 17:35, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Tone sandhi diagram

Could someone explain how to use this diagram? It is rather cryptic to the unitiated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.101.146.142 (talk) 02:45, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

The number is the "tone number" of the syllable when spoken in isolation (and so the number used in the romanisation schemes when one is not using diacritics for the tones). When the syllables are at the start or in the middle of an "utterance", they change, so the tone changes to the one of the number along the arrow. Unlike Mandarin or Eastern Min, the tone sandhi process doesn't depend on the tone that is following it (or so current research seems to say).

On a side point, I would like some clarification about the north/south split in the diagram with respect to the tone sandhi of 阳平 [tone 5] - I assume that's for the Min Nan spoken in Taiwan. I believe in 厦门 itself, 阳平 [tone 5, ˧˥] undergoes sandhi to a surface realisation of 阳去 [tone 7, ˧], like southern Taiwan. What would be the best way of writing that into the article? Michael Ly (talk) 22:02, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

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"Amoy dialect/Negative particles/simplified" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Amoy dialect/Negative particles/simplified and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 17#Amoy dialect/Negative particles/simplified until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 10:53, 17 May 2022 (UTC)