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I'd like to move the article from "Ames Shovel Shop" to "Ames Shovel Shops", which is the name for the site adopted by the National Trust for Historic Preservation, in naming the shops to its 2009 list of most endangered U.S. historic sites. The pluralized name appears in dozens of news articles today. I renamed the article to the that; Marcbela, unaware of the new developments, reverted. The article and its photo gallery show that the factory complex consisted of multiple buildings, several called shops. It may be that past practice has been to call the whole complex just Ames Shovel Shop, but common usage has just been changed, I believe, by the judgment of the preservationists that "Shop" was an awkward term. The preservationists also chose a strategic new name for another site: I believe they coined a new term "Enola Gay Hangar" for a hangar at Westover Air Force Base. I'm not knowledgeable about previous usage, but I think we should just accept the pluralized name is now the common name. doncram (talk) 12:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • All of the out-of-state interests have it wrong. Look at all of the local references I have provided, especially the references to the local battle with the new development. All say "shop". If you want to change it to "Ames Shovel Shop Complex", I would not object. Collectively, it's only one shop!--Marcbela (talk) 13:13, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, unless "Ames Shovel Shop Complex" is actually used in some sources, i think it would be inappropriate to move the article to that name. I assume you're not really advocating that, because you prefer the Ames Shovel Shop singular name, but to anyone else, it's wikipedia policy not to coin new names. About whether out-of-towners can set the name of something: they certainly can. It's not clear which name should be used as the title of a wikipedia article, if locals have one common name and there's a different name commonly used by outsiders, although both names could/should be given as bolded alternative names in the article. To recycle a hypothetical example I've used before: what if northern New Jerseyites took to calling the Statue of Liberty something else, either informal like "the Lady" or some formal term. The rest of the world "knows" the name is "Statue of Liberty", and in that case the outsiders significantly outnumber the locals, and the wikipedia article should stay at Statue of Liberty. I think that "Ames Shovel Shops" is a better name in the sense that it is more descriptive (as it is a complex of shops), and it's hard to say that the outsiders have it wrong. They know what they mean when they say Ames Shovel Shops, so there's no way around the fact that the plural term is now a common name for the place. There is judgment involved, though in saying which is more common. I'm okay with leaving the article at the singular name, as long as the redirect from the plural name stays and the plural name shows as a bolded alternative. doncram (talk) 16:51, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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